The sad truth is that there are legions of unpaid interns working for ‘culture’ websites whose prime objective is to scour the lyrics of Drake/Kanye/Jay-Z for anything even vaguely resembling a subliminal diss. While a lot of late eighties rap could be relied on for rival MCs to straight-up call out the competition by name, there were times when politics and/or the possibility of series violence between crews and neighborhoods meant that these shots had to be a little more subtle.
The unfortunate side-effect of this development meant that over-zealous fans now had the opportunity to concoct intricate fantasy scenarios about lyrical beefs that never actually existed. I remember a friend of mine attempting to convince me that MF Doom and Ghostface were waging a serious campaign of subliminal warfare against each other on the grounds of who owned the right to model themselves after a comic strip identity. While the theory was obviously shot to shit when they later began working together, it goes to show that a conspiracy can be constructed about anything if you want to find it badly enough.
Things get ridiculous when even a seemingly innocent turn of phrase gets marked as a low-blow. Take for example the theory that Kane was going at Rakim when he said, ‘Rap soloist, you don’t want none of this!’ Rakim later explained that his line ‘Word to daddy, indeed’ line from ‘Follow The Leader’ had nothing to do with Kane, but he did get gassed-up by the media to the point where he wrote four or so lines on the Let The Rhythm Hit ‘Em LP, which he removed after Ant Live set up a phone call between the R and Kane and they cleared the air. A perfect example of a perfectly innocent line being projected upon by fans thirsty for two of the titans of the era to clash.
Considering how witty both Big Daddy Kane and Rakim’s lyrics were during that era, shouldn’t we give them enough to credit to believe that if they were seriously going for each other’s throats they would have come up with more effective lines? Kool Keith, meanwhile, was no stranger to delivering clever jabs at the competition, but as he explained to Angus Batey, it was all for the sport of it:
Kool Keith: I don’t really dis anybody on the album. They’re not really disses, they’re more competitive lyrics. Even with Rakim. He wrote a rap that went something like, ‘I can see as far as the planets’, about ‘balls of clay’. He said ‘As far as the eye can see, not even a satellite…’ So I said, ‘Your satellites are weak, I can see your balls of clay’. I just dissed the line: I said something bigger. They were more lyrical battles than personal – it was about topping the line he said.
Truth be told, a ‘hidden diss’ can be found in just about any rap song if you look hard enough. Let’s return to Kane’s ‘Set It Off’:
‘So just stand still and chill as I build/Science I drill until my rhymes fill
Your head up don’t even get up/The teacher is teachin’, so just shut up’
Once again, the very fact that he made a reference to ‘the teacher’ could have been interpreted by battle hungry rap fans as a shot at KRS-One.
‘I’m sendin’ sucker mc’s headin’ north/And if you still want some set if off’
Ultramgentic MC’s made a song called ‘Break North,’ so Rap Beef Conspiracy fans could point to this as a shot fired at Kool Keith…right?
‘Save the bass for the pipe and rearrange your tone/Or take a loss and be forced in the danger zone’
Tuff Crew named their second album Danger Zone, so put on your tin-foil hat if you believe BDK is trying to take Philly down a notch.
‘I come correct, perfect, in full effect/Disconnect, dissect, eject as I wreck shop’
Mantronix third album was In Full Effect. Should we also call this a swipe?
See how easy it is to find something if you over-analyse? We can now argue that Big Daddy Kane was going at BDP, Ultra, Tuff Crew, Mantronix and Rakim in the one song – and we’d be completely delusional. That’s not to say that there aren’t a variety of underhand jabs buried in many rap verses, but there’s also such a thing as just plain wishful thinking.
Doom still be subliminals though
once joined a rap clique midgets into crunk was a particular classic
The Chuck McGill photo is most appropriate for this post. Good one.
I always thought saukrates’ father time joint shot jabs at wu tang.
@bkuts: He was pretty direct about it.
I say this all the time. There’s this big perception that Biggie was dissing Nas in Victory with the line
“..I’m in your momma crib waitin’.
Duct taping, you fam.
Destiny lays in my hand.
Gat lays in my waist.”
Extreme reach
However, back to Kane & Rakim. Rakim clearly says in the unreleased song Hypnotic,
“I don’t sniff no caine (Kane) to get raw.”
To me, that line ain’t even subliminal, but more a play on words. And if I were to guess, the record sounds like it was recorded around the Don’t Sweat The Technique era. Also Rakim had a line on No Omega about MC Grand Poo-Butt. I always thought that was subliminal to Grand Puba (Grand Pu), but immediately dismiss it because of their 5% connection.
@bkuts: He was pretty direct about it.
Was there any why?
Was there any reason why he took shots ?
Good points but there’s so many fans that they’ll be pouring over old songs for decades trying to guess who dissed who.
Aren’t rappers more paranoid though- so many raps reference mysterious wack rappers who are jealous of the guy rapping.
There’s a lot of subliminal stuff so they end up hating or suspicious of the people they know- didn’t Nas diss Prodigy on Stillmatic because he believed Prodigy was dissing him for years without naming him? Rap is also a genre where brag raps diss listeners- the actual buyers of the material. Weird dynamic.
bkuts-I think Saukrates dissed them on another song too or it was the guest’s verse. Can’t remember.
With that Biggie line above, didn’t Nas himself think it was about him? He did say that. Then later didn’t Roc Marciano say Nas was there during the recording? BTW did Camoflage Large diss the Wu, too?
In agreement about that sometimes a rhyme is just a rhyme but kinda disagree about how we’ve got here. When writing that Rakim was “gassed-up by the media” for Kane’s “Raw” recorded in ’87, I have to ask what “media”? 97 Kiss? The Source was a radio review one sheet. Maybe a variety of radio shows or outlets might have conjectured but it wasn’t Vlad TV, yunno? But I don’t doubt during that era “word on the street” or the barbershop or the lunchroom where hearsay becomes news, legend becomes fact. But in most cases, I am with @silent majority when said “so many fans that they’ll be pouring over old songs for decades trying to guess who dissed who” On the Interwebz we are at once rediscovering Golden Era history that didn’t see the light of day and fabricating a history that never had it’s day
@silent minority I think you’re thinking of Last Real Nigga Alive when Nas said:
“Y’all don’t know about my Biggie wars.
Who you thought Kick In The Door was for, but that’s my heart.”
@DJ ARM 18: Those were Rakim’s words, not mine. But I see your point… maybe Word Up and Rapmasters were stirring up trouble in between Heavy D posters?
@GNG – nah I’m sure he mentioned the other ‘Destiny’ line in an interview. It doesn’t make sense if he was there when it was recorded though, unless they changed the verse later.
@bkuts @robbie @silentminority I did the cuts on that joint. Sauks wasn’t going at the Wu. He was just paraphrasing. Besides he ended up being signed to Redman & produced for Meth years after.
How about 2pac going at kool g rap with
“niggas looking like larry holmes flabby and sick”
@Alafino
I always thought that Pac was goin’ at De La Soul with that line for some reason. Around that time, they were airing out the whole Bling/Thug era in Stakes Is High…
@DJ Grouch: Interesting…
“Y’all don’t know about my Biggie wars.
Who you thought Kick In The Door was for, but that’s my heart.”
That was for Jeru too!
“niggas looking like larry holmes flabby and sick”
That was 100% for De la soul, when he spits that line listen carefully and you can hear him say in the background say “Look At De la soul”
@DJ Grouch Thanks for that. Always stuck in my head. hearing him on that meth & red joint just confused the cap outta me.
@DJ Grouch Thanks for that. Always stuck in my head. hearing him on that meth & red joint just confused the crap outta me.
@oskamadison @Lpac
I figured that, but i heard somebody say that online recently.
@Lpac and others, someone representing Jeru commented on this very site years ago that Biggie never dissed Jeru on that track or others. Some of the lines (not the diss part – ‘surprised you run with them’) were supposedly about AZ. It all gets very confusing and I think in a few years maybe even the artists won’t remember who they were dissing 30 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5MogMGLWAA
Was camp lo dissing wu on sparkle when cheeba said check the shadowboxers under cover faggot lovers or on luchini when he said shadowboxers catching black eye blues or something…
Always thought saukrates was aiming at the Wu also.fathertime still is a banger