Psycho Les [The Beatnuts] – The Unkut Interview

Following on from last year’s interview with former Beatnut Al’ Tariq, I finally got a chance to speak with Psycho Les about the ups and downs of one of rap’s greatest groups. Turns out that Les’ history foes back even further than I thought, as he revealed he worked at Music Factory during high school and produced his first record in 1988…

Robbie: Do you feel like Al’ Tariq’s comments about his time with the Beatnuts were accurate?

Psycho Les: It was pretty much right. Me and Al’ Tariq never had a problem. The problem was between Juju and him, they didn’t really get along. When people don’t get along shit ain’t gonna happen.

He mentioned some subliminal stuff between him and Tribe Called Quest and De La Soul?

There was subliminal shit going on but it was more on Juju and Fashion’s part. That had nothing to do with me, I always stay away from any negative shit. I ain’t out to diss nobody.

What made you want to get involved in hip-hop?

Just being a kid from the streets. When I was coming up in mid ’80s the streets was the only place you could find hip-hop. You would go to the parks and we would have the cardboards, people breakdancing and the guy with his boom box playing tapes of Cold Crush and Spoonie Gee and Kool Moe Dee and all that shit. I was into everything of the culture, man – from breaking to graffiti, I did it all. I just fell in love with the music, just watching the DJ and all the power he had. I started messing with all the DJ’s that lived in my building. I would go to their apartments and watch them DJ. From there I developed the whole dream to have turntables and mixers and collecting records.

Where about in Queens did you grow up?

I grew up in Jackson Heights, it’s the borderline of Corona. The only thing that separates us is one street. That’s how I met Juju, ‘cos one of my friends across the hallway from me was also a DJ – DJ Loco Moe. He introduced me to Juju. We was all DJ’s, digging for beats and the same shit we was all into. That’s how we linked up and clicked together.

What was your DJ name?

I was DJ Incredible Hands, and before that I had another little name – I was DJ Ready To Jam.

Did you have a crew back then?

We had little neighborhood crews, nothing big. It was mostly breakdancing crews. We would go to other hoods and battle other guys and we would go to clubs and battle other crews.

What was the next step?

From the breakdancing on the streets I ended up going to junior high school with DJ Rob Swift. His father was a DJ – we was like thirteen, fourteen years old – so everyday after school we would come home to his house and jump on his father’s turntables and start playing and scratching and doing all kind of shit. That was really the beginning of getting with the turntables. We had a friend in Philadelphia in ’88, he was a big drug dealer and his name was Fats, he had an artist. We all knew each other, Rob Swift and his older brother and everything. He actually put us in the studio and we cut a record. That was my first production, in ’88. It was called 2.2.4. [2 Bad 2 Be 4 Real ‘Ill Tempo’/’I Don’t Play’]

Was it a good record?

Shit, it was my first record ever being in a studio. Just a lucky shot, just to throw it out there. From there, just being in the neighborhood I ran into Juju, we started hanging out. I already had my record out, I had a little bit of experience in the studio. He had met Afrika [Baby Bam] from Jungle Brothers. I ended up going to another school with Juju, and after that school we would go to hang out in the studio with Jungle Brothers.

Were you working with them yet or just hanging out?

Just hanging out. We were going to a G.E.D. school in Flushing, both making beats and bringing cassettes everyday to school and play each other the beats. The kids in school used to call us ‘The Beat Kings,’ like, ‘Oh, here comes The Beat Kings!’ There were some other cats that MC’d in there. Everyday we would go straight to see Jungle Brothers and just hang out. They were recording their albums at that time. I had a medallion, like a Africa medallion, but it said ‘The Beat Kings.’ Afrika asked me one day, ‘Who are The Beat Kings?’ I’m like, ‘That’s me and Juju.’ He started laughing. ‘You motherfuckers ain’t no Beat Kings! You’re the Beat Nuts!’ ‘Cos me and Juju was like clowns all the time – getting drunk, fucking around – and they was like straight, serious all the time. Drinking orange juice, eating healthy. They was on that shit. We was always like the crazy guys. That’s why he was like, ‘You guys aren’t no fuckin’ Kings. You guys are Nuts!’ After that we would be on the radio station with Red Alert and they started shouting us out, ‘Shout out to the Beatnuts!’ So that shit just stuck.

Did you do some promos for Red Alert? That must have a good look.

He was the main guy. If Red Alert was playing your record? Chances are you was gonna blow up. He was playing our promos before our records. He was the first one to play ‘No Escapin’ This.’ I went up the radio station, I put two white labels in his hand, I got in my car and drove three blocks and I turned on my radio. ‘”No Escapin’ This”! The Beatnuts!’ Shit is crazy.

You did ‘Pups Lickin’ Bone’ for Monie Love first up, right?

Yeah, I had something to do with that and I think Juju had something to do with another song. That was our first Beatnuts project, and then Afrika had the Chi-Ali project but he was kinda tied-up at the time. He told Violators, ‘Yo, let’s give that project to The Beatnuts. They have a lotta beats.’ We produced and wrote that whole shit. After we did the Chi-Ali album, Relativity [Records] was like, ‘Who are the Beatnuts? These guys are incredible! We wanna give Beatnuts a deal.’ The Chi-Ali project was like a demo for us. We was young, coming up, learning the game.

What was it like working with Chris Lighty?

He was a quiet guy, but he was funny too. He was a serious guy, not too much joking around. He was really into the music, he had big visions for everybody. If it wasn’t for Chris Lighty, we wouldn’t have no Jungle Brothers, wouldn’t be no Tribe Called Quest, no De La Soul, no Beatnuts. We would still be around, but it would be a whole different picture.

At what stage did you meet the other members of Native Tongues?

Every day with Jungle Brothers we would run into De La Soul, ‘cos they was working in the same studio, so we became close. Tribe Called Quest, we would go to their sessions and hang out with them while they’re making records. Sometimes they’d even ask us to do some crowd shit in the back. We was a part of all those records, but we was just the background guys. Everybody knew we had beats, they call us the Beatnuts for a reason. We was always around all those cats, even Queen Latifah, Special Ed – all the younger cats.

Were those guys hitting you up for Spanish record they didn’t know about?

I got a lotta Spanish records from my moms and my grandma that they just had floating around. Once I started digging for records there was no more rules – I listened to every record. I seen my mom’s records and I just start listening to some of them shits and sure enough there was fire on there. A lot of that shit we used on Stone Crazy. ‘Supa Supreme’? That’s an ill Spanish record. I got that from my mom’s collection and I’ve never seen that record – anywhere! That’s how crazy it is. [chuckles]

Was the first Beatnuts project meant to be more focused on Fashion as the main rapper?

That was really the plan, where all we do is produce. We used to rap just for fun, that’s why we wanted an official rapper. Fashion was supposed to be the lead rapper and you would hear me and Ju on some joints. In the middle of the project he got arrested with some shit he was doing, he went to jail. That’s why we had to drop the EP, because we only had six songs done and then this guy goes to jail. When he came back home, that’s when we did the full Street Level album. Us dropping the EP was just us testing the waters, and boom! The first week it sold like a hundred and fifty thousand. That shit was incredible for those days – no digital, that was just wax and CD’s or cassettes.

‘Reign of the Tec’ had a big impact.

It was crazy, and the video was even crazier. In New York you would see that shit every five minutes on the video channel.

When did V.I.C. get involved?

V.I.C. definitely was a part of the whole beginning. The EP and the Street Level [album]. After the Street Level is when Al’ Tariq and Juju didn’t get along no more, they broke up and the next album after that is Stone Crazy. That’s when it started just being me and Juju. No V.I.C., no nobody.

Why did V.I.C. leave?

There’s nothing wrong with V.I.C., we’re still friends. He had other plans. He had a daughter, he had a wife, he sold all his records, he started working, doing some other shit. It wasn’t nobody’s fault, that’s the choice that everybody made.

Was Street Level a difficult album to make?

Nah, it was actually easy to make. It was a fun time. We would just go to the studio and party, and while we’re partying we’re making records. Anything went, man. We had girls hanging out in there, we would throw the girls in the booth and we would use ’em to do skits. It was just a good time.

Fashion mentioned there was some tension behind the scenes. Were you drawn into that?

More on his part. I’m just into having fun, just drinking and smoking. My job was just to make sure the beats was right and everything was EQ’d right.

Were you happy for ‘Props Over Here’ to be the lead single?

It bothered us a little bit in those days, but now that it’s done I appreciate that record a lot, because people like that record. Coming from where The Beatnuts come from, we was more a hardcore group. We wanna do the hard, headbanging shit. That was real happy, got the jazz bassline and all that. We wasn’t trying to go that route but we still made those sorta records.

Was making Stone Crazy the same kind of vibe?

Stone Crazy was a different deal. Street Level we recorded in a real studio and right across the room from us Puff Daddy and all these other cats would be working over there. For Stone Crazy, when we got our recording budget – instead of going and trapping it in a studio, me and Juju bought a whole bunch of equipment. We got an engineer to come and show us how to fuck with all the equipment and we got a one-inch machine [reel to reel tape recorder]. Every day I would wake up and drive over to Juju’s house and we’ll just record two or three songs. That’s how Stone Crazy got done.

Did that offer more creative freedom?

Yeah, exactly. We was more laid back, we’re not worried about the time. We could rock until we got tired and continue the next day. When we did the record with [Big] Pun [‘Off The Books’] we brought Pun to Brooklyn and recorded there, ‘cos that’s where we did the whole album.

How did you know the Screwball guys?

They’re from Queensbridge, and that’s our neighborhood. We were always messing about in the studio called Power Play that’s in Queens and they was always around there. We just know everybody. I’m a big fan of Blaq Poet, he’s one of the illest rappers to me, so first opportunity we had to make a record with him we had to jump on it.

That was weird how Fresh Prince used that same Patrice Rushen loop on the Men In Black song.

Exactly. Everyone’s always asking us, ‘Were you the first ones to do it?’ I’m like, ‘Hell yeah!’ We the kinda group where if somebody had a beat [already] we would never put out the same beat. Beatnuts always wanna be original. Do you remember ‘DWYCK’ from Gang Starr? That same bassline – we used that shit before ‘DWYCK’! We made a record, it was me, Juju and Fashion rhyming on the beat. We had the whole record done, and then ‘DWYCK’ dropped on the radio. So what did we do? We scratched that record off. Nobody ever heard it. We never use the same beats as nobody. That was our mentality.

How did you find that Wonder Woman sample you used for ‘Watch Out Now?’

I sit at home and I just listen to records from beginning to end and find little words that could be hooks. That’s what I do. My beats always got little talkin’ on them.

How was the process for Musical Massacre?

Musical Massacre was a whole ‘nother story, ‘cos we had a new manager and he knew a lotta people. So we was like, ‘Fuck it! Let’s use all these connects!’ That’s why on that album we have a million fuckin’ guests – dead prez, Cheryl ‘Pepsi’ Riley, we was able to get Method Man – we got everybody on that album. That was the only big difference with that album is we got to work with a lotta big artists – Biz Markie and all that shit.

Had you been wanting to work with Biz for a while?

I know Biz Mark from ’87. I used to work in a record store in Manhattan. He used to come there all the time and we’d be talking about records.

You worked with Stanley Platzer?

Yeah, exactly – Music Factory. I used to work there when I was in high school. That’s how I know Biz Mark since I wa seventeen years old.

Did you meet a lot of people coming through to cop those Ultimate Breaks and Beats albums?

That’s my first time seeing De La Soul come into my store and they were just looking at the rap section on the wall. I still didn’t know ’em yet.

What was Stanley like?

Just a cool dude into his music, like an old school guy. He just loved these breaks and all that. He had this big notebook and everytime he would have a new name he would just write it down, so we had this big-ass breakbeat notebook.

Did that help you dig for records?

I ran through that whole book already, I had a lot of that shit already. He was an older cat so he knew his records.

How long did you work there?

I was there a couple of years and then they sold the building so they closed down that shit.

You had Large Professor and Cormega on the Originators album. Did you already know them?

On that album, me and Juju are alone again – no manager or no nothing. Everybody we had on there was our good friends or people we knew from studio. Large Professor? We know him for years. That was an independent album. After that we had the Penalty [Records] deal with Milk Me. That was our last project that we put out as Beatnuts. I have my own label now, I’m putting out my own shit – fuck it.

That ‘Thunder Bells’ song you did was crazy.

That’s my compilation. I’m doing Psycho Les Presents: THC. That album is done already, I’m tweaking it up and mixing it. Should be dropping by June. I got crazy people on that album, that’s gonna feel like a Beatnuts album anyway. It’s all my production.

What makes Queens stand out from Brooklyn and the Bronx?

Queens are just more into that real dark shit. Dark, evil loops – real dirty. At least the people we roll with. Nowadays everyone likes the clean sound and the keyboard – I like the dirty shit. I was just in the studio with Large Professor and Lord Finesse two days ago and we were just playing each other a lotta shit. It’s good to hear that we’re all on the same page, we still haven’t lost it.

Still keeping it gritty.

That’s our job though! To keep it gritty. That’s what I tell these niggas. I tell my engineer all the time, ‘I love to hear the record static. Don’t try to clean that up and hide that sound.’ That’s the sound that we know!

You also did some stuff with Hydra Records with Jerry Famolari?

Yeah man, Jerry Famolari was a ’round the way, neighborhood guy. His brother, Johnny Famolari, was the engineer for the first EP. He helped us produce, mix, all that shit.

Is that how you met all those groups like Triflects?

Exactly. He [Jerry] had that studio in Manhattan and he was good friends with V.I.C. Me and Juju and Fashion would just go up to the studio and just be up there all night – tweaking and chopping and sampling and doing all kind of shit. That was so important to us, man – mixing. Mixing is everything. You could have a good song but if it isn’t mixed right you’re gonna have a wack record. Mixing is important, that’s what we was masters of, everybody – V.I.C., Johnny Famolari – we was all into that shit. Making everything sound big and tight. That’s why all that old shit sounds crazy. You know DJ Camillo? That was one of our first DJ’s that we put on, he’s from Queens. Now he’s playing radio all over New York and he’s like the biggest DJ put here.

There was a period where you guys were doing a lot of remixes.

It was a time you couldn’t have a record without a Beatnuts remix or something on it. It was that time! We were remixing everybody – MC Lyte, Jomanda, R&B shit. Kid ‘N Play joints, we did [the] Pete Nice album, Naughty By Nature remixes.

Were the Hydrabeats albums just left over stuff?

That just extra shit lying around. I don’t know if you saw that UFO Files that I put out? That just goes to show so much shit we made and we never put out.

Is there much left in the vaults?

I’ve got some stuff, but I’m holding onto that. Everything’s out there, pretty much. All the good stuff. I got a couple of songs that we did with Chi-Ali and we’re actually rhyming – me and Juju rhyming with Chi-Ali and Fashion. I didn’t throw that one out, I know somebody’s gonna give me some money for that. [laughs]