Afrika Islam – The Unkut Interview

Rising up through the ranks from the ‘Son of Bambattaa’ to the DJ at The Roxy and launching the Zulu Beat radio show on WHBI, Afrika Islam went on to release the very first cut and paste record, help found the Rhyme Syndicate and produce the majority of Ice-T’s first four albums after moving to LA in what has certainly been an action-packed career. He took a little time out to reminisce before he headed over to Ice’s house to watch the latest episode of SVU.

Robbie: How did you first get exposed to the culture?

Afrika Islam: I was a member of the Zulu King b-boys, under Afrika Bambaataa. That’s how I came into the culture, from the floor up. Being a member of the Zulu Kings I went out to battle other b-boy crews across the city, representing the Zulu Nation. From there, my second step was becoming a Zulu Nation DJ – the first line – which would have been myself and Jazzy Jay and Red Alert and DXT. I was under Afrika Bambaataa – we all were – but I was very close to Afrika Bambaataa. Then I got named ‘The Son of Bambaataa’ because I was always under him and his teachings and what was going on in the Zulu Nation at the same time in hip-hop. That’s my roots of hip-hop – I was there as a DJ.

There must have been a lot of competition to make it into that first line of Zulu DJs?

My technique I took from those that were creating the techniques – Grandmaster Flash and Grand Wizard Theodore. That’s primarily where the technique we used came from, but being that I was with Afrika Bambaataa the main thing was learning all those records, because he was definitely the ‘Master of Records.’ Learning all those records was honestly what everything was about. Having all those records, the repertoire, most of these other DJs only had the ability to….even though they were technically incredible and the pioneers of what modern-day DJing is – Flash and Theodore – the repertoire of the records was the soundtrack to New York City. That was the soundtrack to hip-hop.

Were you working with MCs at this stage?

There was the Soulsonic Force, there was the Cosmic Force. Each [Zulu] DJ eventually had his own group – Jazzy Jay had the The Jazzy Five MCs, Bambaataa had the Soulsonic Force. I was lucky enough to have Three The Hardway MCs, that was Donald’s group. Then it became a group called The Funk Machine, which was the bigger group. All the DJs eventually broke-out from under ‘Bam and eventually had their own group. DST had the Infinity Rappers.

How did you get the gig at The Roxy?

The spot at The Roxys happened for me when Bambaataa took the first hip-hop tour to ever leave America to Europe, and they needed someone to replace him. Somebody told me, ‘the only other person that can play like Bambaataa is his son.’ I was considerably younger than what Bam was. When I first came down to play, the club was maybe two, three hundred people. By they time they came back two weeks later there was around two thousand people. The place got more and more famous, so when they got back it was completely the New York underground club.

Plus there were all the punk kids starting to check out hip-hop as well.

That’s exactly right, because of the location of where the club was.

How did you first meet Ice-T?

I’m about to go to his house right now to watch the new episode of Law & Order! [laughs] How I met Ice is when I went out to the west coast on a tour. Bambaataa had said, ‘There’s a guy on the west coast named Ice-T, you need to get with him when you get there.’ I went out with the Rock Steady Crew to do shows in California, and we met up with the b-boys and the poppers that were in Los Angeles. Ice was the MC at a club called Radio, which would have kinda been the equivalent of what The Roxys was in New York. They were a younger hip-hop culture, but the one thing they didn’t have in Los Angeles was the music and the DJs – but it was starting. So when I got to the club the DJs who I met were Chris ‘The Glove’ Taylor and Egyptian Lover. I also met [Dr.] Dre and Eazy-E, but they were even younger, This is when Dre was doing The World Class Wreckin Kru. I was already a veteran in hip-hop, but at the same time we had ‘Planet Rock,’ and most of the records on the west coast came from the ‘Planet Rock’ style of music. Most of the dancers on the west coast, being that they were elite poppers and electric boogie artists, they danced to records like ‘Planet Rock,’ all up-tempo. There was a symbiotic connection between the music and the dance. Ice-T was the MC, but he was also a b-boy when we met. We got together and we became friends.

Was Ice the first artist that you’d made beats for?

Nah, the first artists I dealt with were the Zulu Nation in New York – ‘Planet Rock’ and ‘Jazzy Sensation.’ As far as producing records that come out, I’ll take you back to one famous, famous mash-up – it’s called ‘Fusion Beats’! On one side was Grandmaster Flash live at Bronx River, where Grandmaster Flash plays the beatbox live. The other side I did on a pause button in my bedroom! I paused that on a cassette tape.

The Bozo Meko record? Was that the first cut and paste record?

The first that came out, ‘cos we were doing these mash-ups throughout hip-hop history. This is one that just happened to have made it to becoming vinyl. All the rest were done on acetates or they were being played directly from cassette. We were always using a beatbox in the club, we were always splicing together beats so people could rap off of it. That whole thing of being ‘the Master of Records’ was we got together and we started putting together these mash-ups which nobody else could do, ‘cos we actually had the records. That’s production as well! As far as production coming out on a major label? Tommy Boy Records and Enjoy Records were major labels inside of New York City. Sire Records was inside New York City as well. They were more of an indie record label ‘cos they had Madonna, they had The Ramones, they had Tom Tom Club, they had Talking Heads and they had Ice-T!

Making ‘6 In The Morning’ must have been amazing.

When Ice performed ‘6 In The Morning’ in New York City it was really the first time a gangster dude was on a record, where the major line that was being said was, ‘I beat the bitch down in the goddamn street.’ I know that was the reaction that Melle Mel and Grandmaster Caz took from that. Up until then, you were listening to the socially conscious records coming out like ‘Self Destruction’ by KRS-One. At the same time that ‘6 In The Morning’ came out, you also had a criminal named Larry Davis that shot two police that raided his house at six in the morning. So most people thought that rhyme was the backstory of Larry Davis. At this same time in New York, Larry Davis was front page news, ‘cos he was working for the police and the police came to kill him! Ice’s record became official when people associated both of these two together. A real crime rhyme.

When did you guys begin to put together the Rhyme Syndicate?

We assembled the Rhyme Syndicate after Ice got signed in ’88, to Sire Records. Rhyme Syndicate was the next project after his first two records because I had so many Zulu’s from New York – like Donald D, Kid Jazz and Everlast – and he had his friends from the west coast, so Rhyme Syndicate really was a putting together of his friends and my friends together in one record company, pushing the agenda of Rhyme Syndicate/Zulu Nation. A lot of people came out of it – W.C., Coolio, Everlast, Donald D, Ice-T.

How long did you continue working with Ice-T?

I was part of OG: Original Gangster and I was part of Bodycount. At that point I stopped production because I had to go on tour to start playing in Japan and opening up clubs. At the same time, Ice got the ability to start doing movies.

What was the concept behind the Zulu Beat radio show?

There wasn’t even a main thesis to the show, it was to get on and just present hip-hop for what it really is. Plus the show was in New York City, hip-hop was very, very young. I’d been in hip-hop since day one, so the people I had on the show were really, truly from hip-hop – meaning they could have been a promoter or a rapper – Fab Five Freddy; they could have been a b-boy like Crazy Legs and the Rock Steady Crew. So when they came on the show they were talking about experiences that were going on inside the field of hip-hop – not just necessarily [promoting] a new record. People were coming on the show, just telling it like it is, like getting off the first Wild Style tour for the movie, going to Japan or going to Europe. That was the guests, but the music that was played on the show was the music that was being played in the streets. That’s why everybody could identify with it. We played b-boy music, we played music that was being rocked to by the DJs that set the trends in that time.

So you were playing foundation breaks instead of just rap records?

We were playing exactly the same thing we were playing in the parties. All the mixes were all pre-made anyway, but a lot of times the actual cassette tapes that people would buy a copy – that were being put into the boomboxes – that’s exactly what we would play. If you were listening to a tape of the Cold Crush Brothers live or you were listening to a tape of Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, live at a special club, unless you were at the club you had a cassette that somebody actually recorded and sold you. We were putting that directly on the air.

How did you get the spot on WHBI to begin with?

WHBI was a language station where you could go in and buy time on the air and sponsor yourself. I was able to buy time on the air because I was the DJ at The Roxy. Cool Lady Blue, that runs The Roxy club, gave me the money to buy time on the air. That’s how the Zulu Beat was established.

So it began as a way to promote your nights at The Roxy?

That was part of it. All the music I was talking about was being played at The Roxy. The night I played at The Roxy, hip-hop lived in New York. The Roxy was the melting pot. Whatever stuff was being played at The Roxy was being debuted on Zulu Beat as well.

What night was the show on?

It was on every Tuesday night. Friday night I was at The Roxys. It could have been a tape from The Roxys, it could have been whatever we jammed on the streets on Saturday and Sunday, or it could have been whatever tape I had – and I had a lot of tapes, from the beginning of hip-hop, starting in 1977. It could have been whatever battle was currently being played around town on cassette, like the famous battle between Busy Bee Starski and Kool Moe Dee. They had a real famous battle at a club in Harlem. Unless you actually had the tape you probably heard it through someone else, but not as far as the entire city hearing it all at one time.

Was the first episode on 1983?

I believe so. I think we went from one to three in the morning.

Was Mr. Magic already on air?

Magic was ‘HBI as well, but Magic wasn’t playing hip-hop. Mr. Magic might’ve been playing R&B and rap records because that’s the genre that Mr. Magic came from. There were other shows that were playing completely reggae on WHBI, but as far as true, real hip-hop? It was Zulu Beat. We played more straight hip-hop.

Donald D said he used to rhyme over you beatboxing and cutting up breaks.

That’s what hip-hop was. Donald was really one of my MCs, but Red Alert was my assistant. Red Alert had hundreds of tapes that he had got copies of from all the battles that he had was able to be at. These were battles that we both were at, but actually having the cassette was the most important thing. If you really look at Zulu Beat, just imagine that you were someone that just had access to hip-hop history and current hip-hop at that time, and the boombox was really the radio station.

Do you have any favorite memories from that period?

Whether it was Rock Steady Crew or Keith Haring or Dondi or Futura or Fab Five Freddy, that’s just what was going on. That was the main thing.

How long did the show run for?

It ran for about two or three years. I had left the show to do the movie with Ice-T – Breakin’ 2 – and then when I came back I was offered to go on main radio in New York City, KISS-FM – which is now Hot 97. I went up there to be the DJ, but once they presented me with a program of what I had to play I gave it to Red Alert. I quit, I didn’t even show up. I didn’t want to be confined in by having to play a program. The reason why they had hired me was they wanted me to play the music which had gotten me where I was, since The Roxy was the main club in New York. They wanted me to play Michael Jackson and a lot of other R&B songs. They were prominent, but they really weren’t the gist of what was going on for us in the hip-hop scene. So I gave the keys to Red Alert and he stayed on twenty years!

Excerpts of this piece were originally published in this piece for Red Bull Music Academy Daily.