Here’s a guest drop from Phillip Mlynar, who was the Deputy Editor at Hip Hop Connection magazine before people stopped buying rap magazines.
Talking about rappers whose fanatical fan worship bore no relation to their actual talent or recorded output used to be easy. Someone would say that 2 Pac was the greatest ever rapper. Someone who’d listened to more than three rap records in their life would counter by pointing out the patchy nature of his music, and how he was prolific in the sense of hopelessly lacking any sense of quality control. They’d be hit back by someone talking about how Afeni’s son was the hip-hop generation’s James Dean and how his whole thug life aura and rapist-without-a-pause mentality was bigger than music and all of that. Then someone would mention “Brenda’s Got A Baby” and everyone would shake hands and move happily on.
These days though there’s a slew of rappers and rap chaps whose publicity, fan worship, and reputation makes ‘Pac looks positively underrated. Here are the five leading exponents…
5. Freddie Gibbs
There was a time when you’d pick up a copy of The Source and read how one of the emcees in Da Lench Mob had gone to jail for mass genocide and was to be replaced by another mid-level Los Angeles rapper. Freddie Gibbs is the modern equivalent of that rapper – complete with that level of skill and charisma. Unfortunately, after a fleeting mention in a New Yorker article, the whole world seems to be inhaling Freddie’s vapors and pretending that he’s gonna drop an NWA level debut. He’s not. And, as I’m sure Harold Ross would agree, Dorothy Parker writes wittier lines than the boy Gibbs. When Fred calls time on his rap career, his hip-hop tombstone should read: “Freddie Gibbs, a rapper who sounded like he should be playing left back for Arsenal FC. Or Diddy’s Crystal Palace.”
4. Bun B & Pimp C As Soloists
Together, Bun B and Pimp C are a good combination, like a down south Tribe with big Bun’s studious flow complimented by Pimp’s catch phrases, and with “One Day” they can lay claim to one of about three genuinely poignant rap songs. On their own though, they’re close to intolerable – as bad as attempting to listen to an entire album of Phife and his incessant American sports references. Where Bun B’s flow perks up a track when he’s used as a guest rapper, three verses of him rhyming alone soon becomes as abrasively off-putting as a barrage of Papoose freestyles. And while Pimp C admittedly did say, “It’s Pimp C, bitch!” better than any other rapper ever, on his own he comes across like a bad attempt at Too $hort on a karaoke night.
3. Madlib
Madlib could have been the finest producer of his generation. Unfortunately, he refuses to show any restraint or quality control, instead preferring to pump out new music with the speed of sonic diarrhea. Which his fans lap up regardless of quality. There’s a strange cult around the ‘Lib which has resulted in some people being brainwashed into actually thinking that Yesterday’s New Quintet was a good record and not, say, something that sounds like a five-year-old bashing away tunelessly at a Fisher Price keyboard. Unfortunately, Madlib’s back catalogue is riddled with such bloopers. This year he’s going to drop an album a month. We’ve already had Flight To Brazil and now there’s Beat Konducta In Africa. At this point he’s clearly making music inspired by the take-out menus stuck to his fridge door. (If he’s interested in going Chinese and locking down the stroller mom fan base of Brooklyn’s Park Slope area I’ll happily send him a menu for Red Hot 2.)
As a testament to how fanatical Madlib’s followers are, consider this: About five years ago, while briefly working at a mail order rap store, there was an in-joke that you could sell pretty much anything on eBay by putting “Madlib” as a term in the item description. I tested it out by listing a piece of A4 paper with “Madlib is gay” scrawled on it in purple marker pen. Two people actually bid on it…
2. Jay Electronica
Four score and seven years ago a young rapper called Jay Electronica was touted as the next big thing. Today, in 2010, he’s still being touted as the next big thing, despite doing little more than popping out a kid with Erykah Badu. By the time their progeny is in high school Jay will still be appearing in ‘ones to watch’ lists. Only indie rock kids who know no better gush over “Exhibit C,” and only people who haven’t listened to Illmatic in over ten years refer to him as the next Nas. Go put on Illmatic again and then play on a Jay Elec song straight after – he’s not even the second coming of Ill Will.
Bonus Traveler’s Tip For Jay: Next time you find yourself walking around Meserole Avenue moaning about the rain and not having a slice of pizza to eat, try walking a few blocks over to the corner of Franklin Street and Greenpoint Ave and taking advantage of the Aligator Lounge’s ‘free personal pizza with every beer offer’. It’s probably just what you’re looking for.
1. J Dilla
These days, if you don’t spend three hours of your waking day sitting outside selling homemade lemonade for a dollar a cup and donating 27% of profits to a likely non-existent J Dilla foundation, then you’re accused of sacrilegious hip-hop behavior, such is the blind worship that surrounds the cult of Dilla. People are sensitive when it comes to criticism of Dilla, but his legacy would be served and preserved far better if there was more level-headed perspective about what he did and did not do. As a producer he’s made a few great songs (mostly early productions), lots of good ones, and also lots of nondescript ones. He also made one of hip-hop’s most beloved groups, Tribe, turn a bit rubbish for their last two albums, and rapped like a third tier No Limit soldier.
No one’s saying Dilla wasn’t a good producer, but unfortunately he never managed or never had the opportunity to raise up to the rank of a hip-hop production genius by completely and repeatedly masterminding projects. Marley Marl, Dr Dre, DJ Premier, Prince Paul – all producers behind many certified classics (and in Premo’s case he took two rapping retards and teased out of them one of the greatest ever rap albums of the ’90s, Group Home‘s Livin’ Proof). Dilla came closest with Slum Village‘s Fantastic Vol 2, but it’s a stretch to place that next to Three Feet High & Rising, Straight Outta Compton, Hard To Earn, and the rest of a very long and prestigious list.
A while back, someone commented that Dilla was the new 2Pac in terms of attracting zealous, ludicrously defensive fans. Unfortunately, he was right.
1) Charles Hamilton
2)Terminology
3)Reks
4)Prodigy
5)Lil’ Wayne
being retarded seems like it must be hard work
HOW THE FUKK IS JAY ELECTRONICE OVER-RATED??
I UNDERSTAND THE NEXT BIG THING ANALOGY..BUT DID YOU HEAR “GLASS EVERYWHERE” PRODUCED BY J.DILLA??
(NOT AVAILABLE ON YOUTUBE ANY MORE..MYSTERIOUSLY)THAT’S THE BEST SONG I’VE HEARD IN 2-3YRS..WHO FUKKIN’ WITH HIM??FROM 2000 TO NOW??MAYBE MURDOC..(UNSIGNED)FROM FLORIDA..BUT SOUNDS LIKE RAE & GHOST..(SOMEWHAT)..
*ELECTRONICA*
when does prodigy get out, cant wait to here p talkin rekless. 2 classics to nas 1. get a kite to p.
“JAY ELECTRONICE”
That would be a brilliant name. He should totally start using it.
Two problems with this. First, if you are going to judge someone’s music by their fans or at least say someone is over rated because their fans are Stans, then some of the folks on the list make sense but not next to each other. Freddy Gibb’s fans (both of them) aren’t even on the same continuum as J Dilla’s. Second, lets say that we can somehow say an artist is over rated by simply looking at how crazy their hard core fans are. In effect, this would mean every rapper or producer is over rated as no matter who you mention there is some idiot out there that claims he is the best rapper alive. Except for Big Shug.
Ultimately the problem is idiots who conflate what they like with what is good. The more someone likes a rapper, the better that rapper is to them. Worse yet, the inverse drives me nuts: critics see this and want to lash back out against an artist because a very small, very vocal group of Stans make a whole lot of noise.
In short, don’t shit on someone because their fans are idiots. Whether or not Dilla was one of the greatest producers of all time is a debate. I’m not putting Dilla at the top of my list but saying he ‘rapped like a third tier No Limit Soldier’ is uninformed at best and just plain ignorant at worst, especially when it is obvious you are just trying to knock the fans down a peg.
This comment is for the fuckin’ moron “Johnny Hardcore homo”. You think Prodigy of Mobb Deep is overrated, you fuckin’ douchebag??? What the fuck are you on??? Yea, Prodigy is not nearly as great as he once was but he is still a legend and when he was in superb form, Prodigy was one of the best, period! Go fuck yourself.
Who sent this guy?
Is this what unkut is going to be now? A series of shock posts?
I think the problem with Dilla is his fans, which can put you off liking an artist. the people that coined the phrase “post-Dilla” and rock the Dilla Changed My Life are to blame for dividing hip-hop fans opinions on a brilliant producer (although not the greatest).
Wow, I’m starting to see why this site is called Unkut, lol… thank goodness i’m not familiar with Freddie Gibbs’ music. However, the others you mentioned are pretty much on point but still surprising to see in those words. I guess fans have been putting artists in high-places from shock-values and not the overall work. Good call.
Wow Robbie…
You know I love that site and loved many, many posts before – but this one has to be my most favorite ever….wise words, wise words…..finally somebody with balls big enough to shoot critics in dillas direction!
There is no doubt about dilla being a skilled producer…but wtf is going on with that whole dilla changed my life shit…dude was sick on the beats, no doubt about that, but he never made had such an impact / influence like a preem for example…i always asked my self why he got so hyped after he passed away…like i said, no disrespect…but dude was not as large as he is now said to be in my honest opinion, period.
and about madlib…even though stones throw is one of the best labels out there, they definitely developed some sort of “hyper fast working” work-ethic that turns out to deliver releases after releases of good but not incredible quality. I would rather see them releasing less records but do a little more quality control…
now…let these dudes start hating on my post haha!
i dunno who Freddie Gibbs is particularly, but the Dorothy Parker crack was a little unfair. DP wrote wittier lines than almost anybody.
“Is this what unkut is going to be now? A series of shock posts?”
^Agreed. Every artist on this list is actually really good to great, and hardly overrated. I think this site is becoming overrated with these kind of posts. I guess P Brothers are better than Madlib, and Sid Roams is better than Dilla huh? GTFOH
@Johnny Hardcore: You must be out your mind if you think Prodigy is overrated.
Haha…calling men homo’s is only insulting if they are secretly gay…Prodigy is generic as fuck…couple good songs on The Infamous and that’s about it. Talks tuff then gets pig tied and pistol whipped…straight G…haha. It’s good to see no one caught feelings over LiL Wayne…continue E Thuging…
Yeah, none of those acts are overrated.
Underrated Rappers:
1)Slaughterhouse
2)Saigon
3)Rhymefest
4)Immortal Technique
5)R.A the Rugged Man’
6)Cassidy
1)Slaughterhouse
2)Saigon
3)Rhymefest
4)Immortal Technique
5)R.A the Rugged Man’
6)Cassidy
^These guys have never ever made anything close to The Infamous, Hell on Earth, Murda Musik, or HNIC. Get real. And I enjoy most of those rappers.
for real? madlib is nice but its true about putting all tha tshit out. imagine what he keeps for himself? jay electornica is nice? greatest of all time? at least not yet.gibbs is overrated. bun b and pimp c as soloists i guess you could put in there, isnt someone like a inspectah deck as a soloist not being good alone more valid?HERES THE THING…J DILLA CHANGED THE FUTURE OF HIPHOP PRODUCTION AFTER HE WAS DEAD. PEOPLE WERENT APPRECIATING HIS SHIT CAUSE HE WAS DOIN THINGS DIFFERENT. NOBODY CAN MATCH WHAT HE DID. FOR REAL FOR REAL. AND HE WASNT A RAPPER HE JUST SPOKE OVER HIS BEATS. AND HE HAS ALOT OF GREAT SONGS. J DILLAS PRODUCTION IS ONE OF THE NICEST OF ALL TIME. HANDS DOWN. MADLIB IS SICK WITH IT TOO. JUST A LITTLE TOO OUT THERE MOST OF THE TIME.
dilla – 78% overated
gibbs – 99% overated
madlib – 54% overated
bun b pimp c – 98% overated
jay alec – 68% overated
^I strongly disagree.
i agree 100%, although I’m hoping Jay Elect lives up to the idea of what coulda been…its not never too late.
ha termenology or how ever the fuck you spell that shit , i cant understand this twats recognition i personally think he is wack, dont understand why you have jay and p in there but hey , hip-hop connections wrote allot of things that did not make much sense to me. as for overrated Slaughterhouse,DIPSET OR DICK HEADS,KID CUDI IF HE CAN EVEN BE CALLED A RAPPER,CURRENSY WTF,THE GAME
^^ OH SNAP YOU GOT DILLA IN THERE , bun b and pimp hmm
whoever said shock posts or whatever was right. if i want this type of bullshit i will read bol-byron crawford over at xxl (which i won’t). seriously, this is the best hip-hop website going because it takes the art form seriously, is ridiculously knowledgable, and also has fun and humor. but this? what’s next? illseed’s UNKUT rumors? please don’t fuck up what you’ve built with glib ass posts. that’s a compliment.
ROBBIE AMEN BROTHER!!!! I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID. J DILLA PRODUCTION WAS AVERAGE AT BEST AND SINCE HE DIED HE’S BECOME DJ PREMIER OR Marly Marl????? He was a horrible rapper too.NO I’M NOT HATING JUST BEING HONEST!! I NEVER HEARD PEOPLE TALK ABOUT HIM UNTIL HE PASSED LIKE THEY DO.
I COULD NAME 30 PRODUCERS OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD THAT ARE MUCH BETTER THAN j.dilla.
I ALSO STICK TO THE FACT THAT 2-PAC IS THE MOST OVERATED RAPPER EVER.EVER.
HE WAS SUGE KNIGHT’S BITCH! PLAIN AND SIMPLE. HIS FIRST LP WAS COOL AND HE HAD ONE OR TWO SONGS AFTER THAT.BUT DON’T TELL ME HE WAS THE MOST LYRICAL MC OF ALL TIME.
PEEP THE TRACK ON BIG L’S LP WHERE HE AND PAC RAPED BACK TO BACK.HAHAHHAHA PAC EMBARSSED HIM SELF ON THAT JOINT.
WHAT THE FUCK HAPPEN TO HONESTY IN HIP-HOP?????? JUST BECAUSE PAC DIED DOESNT MAKE HIM REALER OR MORE LYRICAL THAN HE WAS ALIVE.
THIS AIN’T SHOCK POSTS!!!! THIS IS HONESTY!!!
IT’S FIND TO LOVE PAC AND ALL OF THAT BUT THE GUY WAS NOT A MC BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.
BUN B IS WACK AS FUCK TOO!!!! JAY ELECTRIC IS OK…HE’S GOOD FOR A SOUTHERN RAPPER BUT WHATS THAT SAYING ANYWAY. DON’T GET IT TWISTED THE SOUTH HAS INCREDIBLE MUSIC FROM JAZZ TO SOUL TO BLUES etc…BUT HIP-HOP IS NOT ONE OF THEM.
THANKS ROBBIE.
@DJ DAVITO – I agree with you 100% about 2-Pac! In regards to Dilla, I totally agree with you as well, but I wonder if the jock riding is because Donuts was released a few days before he passed and that was his best work collectively on one album IMO.
dude is a straight hater…freddie gibbs has some tight songs. pimp and bun got classics all over.
I’ve never heard a hip hop producer remake a classic song and give a song new meaning. Dilla’s remake of “Think twice” pretty much represents his production talents. To say he is overrated is definitely opinion based and you are entitled to that. BUT, if you understand hip hop then you understand Dilla. Whoever wrote this does not know Dillas full body of work. I think his work is an extention of a time when music evoked emotions(soul music). His work was more than just samples like the producers that were mentioned. He crafted his music to have meaning by itself. I can listen to a dilla beat cd and not get bored and that was when he was alive. His passing did make me appreciate his body of work because I knew that there was never going to be another dilla dog. The closest person to dilla right now is Exile, in my opinion. When Dilla passed, it was like Jordan leaving the big show. He definitly changed the HIP HOP game.
What are you basing this on? Unkut’s readers? Your friends? General knowledge? I can’t say I agree with this list at all or the reasoning behind it to be honest other than Madlib.
i agree with this about 100%, all those dudes ARE overrated. but, check out bun b’s – ain’t no mixtape. its just a bunch of 2-3 minute songs without choruses, not saying its great (cause it ain’t) but good enough to bump
oh and all of johnnyhardcores underrated rapper suck. no joke
i dont really have any comment on anything he said because i don’t listen to any of these straphangers but seriously get more copy from this guy…we need quality hip hop journalism whatever the viewpoint may be…unkut has this blog shit in a yoke…it really is a pleasure to read something this well written…
oh and you’re dusted if you thin ballpoint P is overrated…I think P overrated a lot of other rappers on that top 50 list of his….
i can’t read these fucking comments anymore. oysters, all a ya’s.
eh the whole underrated / overrated discussion is for the birds. you might think an artist deserves to be bigger or smaller based on your perception of his talent, but as long as lady gaga, high school musical etc. are the top selling acts, every average to decent rapper deserves to be called underrated.
ps: why hate on an up-and-coming dude like gibbs who can actually rap without giving a real explanation except a perceived “lack of skill and charisma”? arent there enough dr.suess-rappers clogging the airwaves for you to pick on?
good read.well entertaining.i’m good wit most of these picks (freddie who?) but insert any tight pants 80’s referee ‘artist’ and i’m the fist cosignin it.
There’s a way to write a blog post that is lighthearted and smartly irreverent and there’s a way to write a blog post that is juvenile and insipid. Sometimes there is a thin line between the two. In any event the author of this article chose to go down the second route, and this post is the worst for it.
Hey, if you google Philip Mlynar you’ll see he’s the President of the Jay Electronica Shine Blockers Club!
And when your litmus test to see if someone is good is to listen to them RIGHT AFTER ILLMATIC, that tells you everything you need to know right there!
i totally agree
i’d add doom
and some of the new “produced by dj premier or pete rock” shit
bye
“He also made one of hip-hop’s most beloved groups, Tribe, turn a bit rubbish for their last two albums”
You’re speaking the truth on this, i’m glad somebody finally said it
“Freddie Gibbs, a rapper who sounded like he should be playing left back for Arsenal FC. Or Diddy’s Crystal Palace.”
hahahah more of this please.
Firstly, Beats Rhymes and Life was a very good album. But yeah, there is definitely a sense of “shock” posting about. Objectively speaking, Dilla has a very strong catalogue, dude didnt save my life but i’m not about to complain when someone skilled is getting props, rather him the Lil Weezy or Jeezy or woreva.
Ultimately, none of these artists are really overrated. Dont think Bun or Pimp solo work is really heralded either.
The Tupac comment is spot on, wtf is that about!?! People go apeshit knowing full well they listen to next to no hip hop smh.
“I think the problem with Dilla is his fans, which can put you off liking an artist. the people that coined the phrase “post-Dilla” and rock the Dilla Changed My Life are to blame for dividing hip-hop fans opinions on a brilliant producer (although not the greatest).”
Fuckin PURISTS!
shock posts may be the wrong term . . . but as soon as you have comments and/or posts where homo, faggot, stan, are going around, you’ve taken an L. j dilla raps like a third tier No Limit soldier . . . nice work Byron. to quote ice-t which applies even more to rap bloggers than journalists “you just a bunch of ho’s/making money off the pros,” except in this era you’re broke. those artists might be overrated but it’s the principality, robbie. that nas post was funny but had more real criticsm in it, instead of someone just trying to come off as a witty guy who knows where wow, the alligator lounge is
is Donuts even an album really? never understood that one
((((shots fired)))) – hahaha! Phillip, i dont know if the Alligator Lounge was around back then, but pretty funny regardless.
i agree on this list, but i’ve never even heard of gibbs and i live on the west coast, i don’t even think jay elec can be considered overrated since he doesn’t even have an album out, dilla and madlib are truly overrated though. Sometimes when you listen to madlibs shit, you are like wtf is this mish mash of samples, commercials and people talking? when he actually produces on rap albums is when he shines, but his other shit is just throwaway.
Tupac may be the all-time greatest personality in Hip-Hop, But was definetly overated as an MC. He is overated because many cite him as the all-time best. He was great,(Even though he had way too many half-baked lyrics and tired gangstar rhymes)But not the best ever.
Wow. Just wow.
Honestly, people need to drop the East Coast bias and stop drinking the Kool Aid. The whole article lost all credibility when Dre, Marley, and Prince Paul got mentioned as having a better body of work over Dilla. Quite frankly, those three dudes are just as overrated as J-Dee, if you want to judge by the standard of rabid fan base/quality control. Time has revealed that Marley jacked more production credits than he actually produced songs (just ask Biz, Kane, K-Def, Granddaddy I.U.) Dr. Dre’s joints post Eminem’s first album all sound “keyboard-y” and wack. And Prince Paul?? Remember Handsome Boy Modeling School, Prince Among Thieves, and Psychoanalysis? Garbage.
Plus, take into consideration geography when you look at artist success. Jay Dee had the disadvantage of being in the Midwest when he started his career, and that played a HUGE disadvantage to getting exposed. All the promoters had bases either in NY or LA, and nothing outside of those two areas got as much push as the locals. Just look at how long it took for Common, Outkast, Scarface (for those who remember, it took from 1989-1994), and anything from any of the other 48 states to get on! It was TWICE as hard for producers to get on! No ID and Dug Infinite had to wait almost 15 years to actually become in demand, and that was only after Kanye stole their sound (another argument for another day)! Jay Dee had to squeeze himself into the scene, and those two wack ass Tribe albums he had hands on was just more Q-tip’s and Phife’s fault with those weak rhymes than it was his.
Now I digress – I agreed with most of the rest of the post, but don’t let the bias cloud the picture. A classic is in the eye of the beholder, and anybody who’s followed hip-hop for longer than 20 years knows that “artist push” has just as much to do with hype as it does talent. Just ask Saigon, Guilty Simpson, or Crooked I – three GREAT examples of artist who have the skills, but no $$$$ or radio hype pushing the product.
nah ma,n dilla definetly added to the legacy of marley, premo, prince paul, lp, etc.
He definetly changed the production game with his off beat shit and the way he eq’d his snares no-one was doing that shit before.
Madlib and Dilla’s fans can get a little too fanatic but that doesnt mean both aren’t very talented producers and they aren’t spose to be good rappers (atleast Madlib isnt, that is kinda his shtick behind the mic).
This is just a lame post. The musings of one person vs. artists who’ve sold millions of tracks. Fuck off, “Phillip”.
Stopped paying attention to this post right after he compared Bun B to Papoose. Bun is a lyrical animal. Top 3 in the south.( Andre 3000, Scarface) Top 10 overall. Bullshit post
Terrible post, you jock some REAL no name artist out of Queens that no body cares about, let alone their own neighborhood and then you go ahead to call Madlib overrated.
LiL CRACKBABY WAYNE! PAPOOSEY!
BLACK ASS YOUNG JEEZY! 90 PERCENT OF THE RAPPERS FROM THE SOUTH! GAME BITCH ASS! AND WACK ASS SOUL JA BOY! OVERRATED LIKE A MOTHER FUCKA!
thank you. So many bands sounded fresh before Dilla touched them. De La, Tribe, Pharcyde.
Dilla = Plain Donuts.
“90 PERCENT OF THE RAPPERS FROM THE SOUTH!”
Seriously people who say the South suck dont know what they are talking about they just say it to sound cool really The South doesnt suck most the rappers out the South are good to great just a few rotton apples spoiled the whole bunch.
You didn’t get the memo? If your from Queens your better than 95% of rappers anywhere…generic or not…haha
“what’s next? illseed’s UNKUT rumors?”
+100, MDI. That is fucking hilarious.
I gotta say, I don’t get why some of ya’ll think this is so out of character. Especially recently, Robbie/Unkut are putting out articles challenging this imaginary canon everyone has of what “real” hip-hop is… and really, what does it matter? Ya’ll act like because Phillip Mlynar said this shit, it’s automatically true and the “Big Book of Hip-Hop” will now have “Zealously Overrated” by these peoples’ names for all of history (no shots, PM).
My personal take? I’ll agree with pretty much all Phil wrote, but I also think Prodigy sucks balls (and that the rest of Hardcore’s ‘underrated’ list actually is just straight shit, cept R.A.). So what? At the end of the day, if you listen to Jay Electronica or whoever’s music, don’t act like some religious fundamentalist dickhead and feel you have to “convert” people to thinking the same way as you. Keep enjoying the music, pass along to those you think might enjoy it, and if they do, cool; if not, keep it fuckin movin.
/themoreyouknow
-TJ
MOST OVERRATED/OVERZEALOUS RAPPERS:
1) Lil Wayne
2) 50 Cent
3) Juelz Santana
4) Papoose
Can’t really think of any else worth mentioning…I wouldn’t put Gibbs on the list considering 95% of “Hip Hop” fans have never heard of him
^Good point we all like what we like. If is say someone is shit its because I think they are. We can argue about it all day but it doesn’t resolve anything.
With that said it does amaze me when someone doesn’t think Slaugherhouse and in particular Crooked I are dope.
And Robbie didn’t write this one so take it easy on him folks..lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHxNhPW7OVM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHgUFHll3aM
This post is not at all what I expected it to be when I read the first paragraph. I thought we were going to be talking about the so-called new breed of rappers, such as those found on the cover of the latest XXL. You know, the fem-named Wiz Khalifa, the aforementioned Freddie Gibbs, some of these other cats that no one really knows from the other, that may or may not warrant the hype. The guys that moved Sean P to state that “I don’t Wale and dem new ni@@uz”. I didn’t know that the writer was gonna go in on guys who have actually had releases, in many cases several. And, I see the post has now developed into a name-calling meltdown.
As far as hardcores list goes:
slaugherhouse: they got the internet going nuts…well mainly budden and royce and joell on occasion…people check for their shit though. i suppose that should count for something.
saigon: well, he missed his window. he should have dropped a respectable, official full length by now…instead he wasted his best bars on mixtapes and has become repetitive, and not in a good way…the whole ‘gsnt’ living up to its name is officially a sad reality and not just a clever joke.
fest: who knows, who cares? he doesn’t suck but he is just another middle of the road rapper with ‘messages’ in his music. good luck with that. and by ‘that’ i mean ‘getting people to give a shit.’
immotech: strong concepts, big message, but again, who gives a shit? the fact that he is from ny but still raps like its ’89 won’t help him, either. his flow is weak as shit.
ra: sounds like he has a permanent cold. he’s nice but sounds a little bitter when he starts talking about “i remember so-and-so when they were nobody.” so what? you’re nobody now. focus on that.
cassidy: who cares? this guy still has a punchline in every bar. he only appeals to people who still listen to fabolous, and let’s face it, no one who comes here respects those people.
as for ballerina p, if you dissect his music along ‘technical’ lines, he ain’t the best to do it, but for my money, he has a certain FEEL that can’t really be captured by anyone else. ‘bacon and cheese’ was a standout song on big twin’s album b/c prodigy was on it. the whole time listening to ‘the project kid’ – which i enjoyed, by the way – i kept wondering how p would sound over those beats.
^ I’m just talking people who I think are dope and don’t get props..not about who cares about them? Are they relevant? Did they miss there chance to blow? none of these things concern real heads.
The article was written well but I don’t relate to the content. I can’t see how Freddie Gibbs could be overrated when 99 out of 100 hip hop heads you ask can’t name one song by him. I am an admitted Dilla/Madlib fan but can admit that these dudes miss me every once in a while with their shit. As a whole, their catalogs hold some serious heat tho. As for UGK, I agree that they are lackluster solo, but I don’t think they’d make a top 5 overrated anything for me. Jay Electronica is a beast, but I can hear the argument that he’s overrated. I’m looking forward to whatever he releases whenever he releases it but people salute him like he’s Jesus in the flesh. This was entertaining, I guess. Especially the comments. Well done, haha..
So…what’s the alternative if jay elec is so overrated. Dude’s material speaks for itself. It’s the FANS that can be wack. This writer has this all ass-backwards, and just for views, apparently. There are so many others that need to be on this “list”, this article has to be shock. Pathetic.
lol at Robbie deleting my post. You mad I called you out on your lame Eastcoast Rapper jocking?
Why not jock some other no name rapper from Brooklyn nobody cares about?
OMG OMG OMG HE DID A TRACK WITH MARLEY MARL IN 89 OH SHIT I JUST JIZZED IN MY PANTS BUT FUCK DILLA, THAT NIGGA IS OVERRATED OHH LAAAWWWWWDDD BUT THIS BROOKLYN CAT RHYMES LIKE ANY OTHER LAME HE THAT DUDE
Yea, those that jumping at Robbie for this one need to check the author’s name. This aint a Robbie post!
But I read mos this shit anyway– Phil is buggin on the Madlib and Dilla stuff. OK, neither of them can rap… Dilla better than Otis but who’s really counting. Both these dudes made beats in a seriously innovative way. They changed the game indefinitely. And JayDee’s donation to this sound is unbelievable, regardless of the missteps in his early career. Yea, some that Tribe shit was weak, but his roster of work and just straight music is fuckin phenomenal and truly heartfelt real shit. Swing, drumsounds, chopps: he’s the dude that opened up a whole new style and range in an era that was hurting real bad. You can’t front on Dilla man- you’re totally insane or just havent found your soul if you front on this dude.
But meanwhile, all the Queens haters in the comments need to sit the fuck down. Gettin all rambunctious about Prodigy. If your a true hiphop head, you respect P, regardless. He doesnt have to be your favorite rapper but he has a legacy no matter how you twist it and an endless supply of SONGS AND ALBUMS to support that. If you cant recognize that, your simply a fool…
^Prodigy has a few classic songs and a few good songs but is still zealously overrated. Lets be honest. I don’t even understand why anyone gives a shit about him..he was okay when he was good..now hes whatever…
“lol at Robbie deleting my post”
^ Lies.
I think Johnny Hardcore is on some COINTELPRO shit, running up in the scene to cause in-fighting and basically neuter the essence of Unkut. Let’s not indulge him.
As for the post, meh. I take most of these posts with a grain of salt. All of positions like these are subjective. The Solution‘s post is on point, btw. Being a critic, in the academic sense, that is criticism as an actual craft and genre of literature and not an ephemeral reaction or spiteful retaliation, is about understanding that there’s a difference between what you like and what is “the best” in some sort of objective sense.
For example, personally, I love Esoteric. I think he’s a talented rapper, but I understand that beyond that, I am a fan of polysyllabic witticism, a rabid sports fan and history buff, own numerous vintage Polo pieces, a student of hip hop history, and consider Noam Chomsky a centrist. That’s totally going to color my interpretation of his music, right?…
Honestly. this site should strive for a higher standard than arbitrarily selecting artists and exploiting the dichotomy between their d-riders and haters.
Unkut, you’re better than that /Mark Jackson’d
YO! I’ve BEEN saying DILLA is way overrated, motherfuckers didn’t even know he existed until he died! Now all the sudden youtube swears he’s the best ever, what the fuck!? He’s not even in my top 50 best producers.
Prodigy is in my top five worst rappers ever. He’s fucking horrible.
Just because Dilla has a lot of dickheads jocking doesn’t alter the fact that he is one of the greatest producers of all time. On a level with Premier, Marley Marl etc. What other producer can make great tracks with either samples or synths? His swing on drums has been widely copied since his death and it may have given birth to 1000 wack imitators but doesn’t alter the fact that he was a genius.
Let’s face it, most dead artists are overrated somehow.
Damn, all this shit is kinda strong comin’ from a journalist that cut and pasted together the most horrible rap magazine ever. WTF?!
And it still reads the same old bullshit. Weirdo talk like comparing Dilla with Dre and Prince Paul. And no, I’m not a defensive fan I’m just defending my own sanity after wasting time reading this herbs diary.
notorious big is overrated. how can you be the greatest after only two albums, and only one being any good? scarface/jay z/ ice cube/ > notorious big
@digglahhh
I’m just stating opinions like everyone else is if they don’t coincide with yours it doesn’t mean I have motives to “neuter the essence of Unkut.”
I say blame the internet in all its glory!
This “tool” has made hip hop so fuckin corny & desperate that when any half decent guy pops up it gets overhyped and the expectations become ridiculous…watch when jay electronica drops…the world will not be satisfied…
The same “fans” who treat music like fastfood will be the deciding factor, lol, jay elec. stands NO chance…especially if the fans who support him over analyze him… just to be opinionated…
new music drops every hr on the hr, this generation is good for calling EVERYTHING overrated anyway, just like people
re-reviewing CLASSIC albums from over 10yrs ago!!
LOL 1 thing I’ll NEVER do is take advice from some new age internet cat or “journalist” on style or taste, trust me…its like…if dilla overrated then whats justified to appreciate then? Or if Baggy jeans are out then leotards are in? c’mon…says who…
As far as pimp C, if he were alive, ALOT of this BS going on in the south wouldnt even be allowed! right before he passed he was about to start name dropping..he had already started on jeezy and ATL…pimp c is ANYTHING but overrated IMO…
The thing that puts dilla & madlib up there with the greats is that they are the last from that cloth, yeah you have a few left, but NOBODY flips samples like dilla,
And if your not the one to really care about rare samples and drums, then yeah YOU would think dillas overrated…how could you see the brilliance when you dont want to? lol…lets be fair about it…look at everything for face value then how could you actually appreciate it?
If we did that back in the day, de la tribe NONE of them kinda cats woulda blown up…Nobody EVER mentions the menatlity back then, EVERYBODY skips that part, so these new cats feel entitled to view the golden era from the same shallow view that the internet provides…thats why cats is QUICK to get disrecpectful..online…but then refer to YOU as the “e thug” lol…
Madlib uses a fuckin roland 303 sampler and SP1200 so yeah his quality is Ass but c’mon, overrated? You honestly think “the healer” is overrated? You think madvilliany was overrated production too? wow…
You say it like he’s getting unjustified crazy shine! yeah his time stretching is lumpy, he loops 90% of his beats but how many new loops or breaks has he discoverd in the last 5 yrs alone?
Hope you proved your point bro cause Im lost at what your trying to say/accomplish…
especially for a site like this…
@digglahhh
Furthermore…the essence of Unkut is stating opinions,talking shit and not giving a fuck what other herbs think. Mabey Robbie should give me a job. hahaha
“What other producer can make great tracks with either samples or synths?”
Dre? Quik? Any other west coast cat?
i’d say dilla stans are definitely worse than 2pac stans
lol at how many of these (four out of five by my count) are passion of the weiss canon
You think Dilla and Madlib are more overrated than Kanye West and Jay-Z? I don’t get it.
Dilla is HORRIBLE on the mic, grow the fuck up, fanboys and respect real MCs. A good, not great, producer canonized by death and dorks who spend hours listening to dull Roots records. (They’re pretty good live but the albums are ALL spotty, failing in EVERY case to live up to the implied concepts.)
Jay who? In Greepoint?!
Papoose who?
Canibus should be on this list somewhere although it’s hard to work up too much hate for dude who so often murks himself.
LAUGHTERHOUSE!!
It’s a small shame Joell Ortiz went from hot BK up-and-comer to a twitter rap assclown he chose that destiny, alas.
YO NOT FOR NOTHING BUT THESE J-DILLA FAN CLUB MEMEBERS ARE OUTTA CONTROL. I DIDNT THINK HE WAS WACK AND I DIDNT THINK HE WAS DOPE.HE DID A COUPLE HOT BEATS AND WAS A COOL BROTHER BUT TO MENTION HIM AMONGST VETS WITH CRAZY CLASSICS UNDER THEIR BELT,IS REACHING.
LIKE I SAID I COULD NAME 30 PRODUCERS AT LEAST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD THAT WERE WAY ILLER THAN J-DILLA IF NOT MORE.
JESUS, ROBBIE I THINK SOME OF THESE CATS ARE THE PRESIDENTS OF J-DILLA’S FAN CLUBS AND BUM B TOO.
PIMP C HAHAHA YO THAT DUDE WAS AS FUCKIN CORNY AS HIS CORNY ASS NAME.
J-DILLA DIDNT HAVE A CHANCE BECAUSE HE WASNT FROM NYC OR CALI HAHAHA.PLEASE IF HE HAD BEEN FROM NYC OR CALI NOBODY WOULD HAVE EVEN KNOWN WHO HE WAS BECAUSE THERE WOULD OF BEEN THOUSANDS OF “DOPE” PRODUCERS.
IT’S LIKE CATS FROM NYC BACK IN THE DAY WHO COULDNT MAKE IT IN NYC.THEY’D GO TO ANOTHER STATE AND BLOW UP BECAUSE THERE WAS NEXT TO NO COMPETION.
PEOPLE LOVE TO HATE NEW YORK AND IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO JEALOUSY.STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN.
DISSING NYC IN HIP-HOP IS LIKE ENGLISH REGGAE GROUPS AND FANS(england had a big reggae scence)
DISSING JAMACIA FOR REGGAE.
PROOF IS CATS OVER SEAS RATHER IT’S DJ HONDA OR SNOW GOONS OR THE FANS. THEY WANT TO WORK WITH LYRICAL CATS NOT HILL BILLY HOOD RAPPERS OR “GANGSTA” RAPPERS.
THEY UNDERSTAND THE DIFF BETWEEN GOOD HIP-HOP AND RAP MUSIC.
DONT GET IT TWISTED 90% OF THE SHIT COMING OUT OF EAST COAST RIGHT NOW IS GARBAGE.BUT THAT’S STILL 10% BETTER THAN THE REST OF THE WORLD.
YOU ADD JERSEY,CT,AND BOSTON TO THAT EAST COAST LIST AND IT’S AN EVEN HIGHER PERCENTAGE.
DONT GET IT TWISTED THERES SOUTHERN DUDES WHO CAN SPIT BUT THEIR BREDREN WONT LET THEM GET HEARD AND CALL THEM NY WANNA BE RAPPERS HA…BECAUSE THEY CAN RHYME????
GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE.
REAL LYRICAL MCS AND REAL HEADS KNOW THE TRUTH AND ANYBODY WITH ANY UNDERSTANDING OF HIP-HOP MUSIC HISTORY.
OH AND DISSIN SOMEBODY FOR RAPPING IN AN 89 STYLE???????? SO IT’S BETTER TO RHYME IS A 2010 STYLE LIKE LIL WAYNE,FLOCKA COCKA WOCKA,LYOD BANKS OR GUCCI MANE?????
I’LL TAKE 89 ANY DAY OVER THAT BULLSHIT!!!!! WHEN YOU HAD TO HAVE LYRICAL SKILLS TO GET RESPECT.
Last point on the subject of Prodigy is that even if he isnt the strongest lyricist of the moment, he has managed to capture a style/swagger/feeling that constitutes a movement.
And lets face it, the guy can pick BEATS!!!
Not true for sooo many rappers today (Nas included)
“And lets face it, the guy can pick BEATS!!!
Not true for sooo many rappers today (Nas included)”
nas over prodigy beats would be a win for sure
smh at you dweebs. Ever heard the saying “you start missing something once it is gone”? That goes for Dilla, sometimes you take shit for granted when you shouldn’t.
People ALWAYS jump in a niggas back when they die. People suddenly loved Mac Dre, suddenly loved Killa Sha (nobody gave a flying fuck when he lived, except Robbie and some other lames).
How can you even say there are 30 other producer that are better than Jay Dee? He might not be Top 10, but saying ILL BEAT MASTAHZ form Bumfuck Ohio is better than him is just ludicrious. Keep mentioning your no name producers from Salt Lake City or some other wack ass city that produced some lame ass local rap track.
Yo and DJ Davito, hit the motherfucking CAPS LOCK you stupid piece of shit, it would eventually lead people to read your brain diarea ;)
UMM..AND DOOM GETS A PASS(FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD)FOR ONE BEER ALONE..ILL SAMPLE..AND UTILIZATION OF EFFORTLESS BREATH CONTROL..AND WIT..ANOTHER EMCEES TAKE NOTE MILESTONE..TO ME ANYWAYS..SINCE ’73..
*HIP-HOP..NOT SONG..
I think Doom should be No.1 on this list.
Put Dr Dre on #1.
Dude didnt put out something REAL dope in a long time, I guess his ghost producers run off, fuck that old ass fraudulant ‘producer’
Doom especially… did the mask make this nigga lose every bit of presence and delivery he used to have?
As for Dilla- I’ve said it a number of times. He was good, and great on occasion, but nowhere near what his superfans say he was. And to a degree, regardless of the great stuff he did, I’ll always remember him first and foremost as the dude behind one of the most sleep-inducing groups ever (Slum Village) and one of the most sucktacular albums ever (Love Movement).
-D!
And kudos at this: “People ALWAYS jump in a niggas back when they die. People suddenly loved Mac Dre, suddenly loved Killa Sha (nobody gave a flying fuck when he lived, except Robbie and some other lames).”
No dis, but when Killa Sha got like 17 entries in a row dedicated to him on here, that was some Twilight Zone shit for real.
-D!
Wow. Just wow.
Honestly, people need to drop the East Coast bias and stop drinking the Kool Aid. The whole article lost all credibility when Dre, Marley, and Prince Paul got mentioned as having a better body of work over Dilla. Quite frankly, those three dudes are just as overrated as J-Dee, if you want to judge by the standard of rabid fan base/quality control. Time has revealed that Marley jacked more production credits than he actually produced songs (just ask Biz, Kane, K-Def, Granddaddy I.U.) Dr. Dre’s joints post Eminem’s first album all sound “keyboard-y” and wack. And Prince Paul?? Remember Handsome Boy Modeling School, Prince Among Thieves, and Psychoanalysis? Garbage.
Plus, take into consideration geography when you look at artist success. Jay Dee had the disadvantage of being in the Midwest when he started his career, and that played a HUGE disadvantage to getting exposed. All the promoters had bases either in NY or LA, and nothing outside of those two areas got as much push as the locals. Just look at how long it took for Common, Outkast, Scarface (for those who remember, it took from 1989-1994), and anything from any of the other 48 states to get on! It was TWICE as hard for producers to get on! No ID and Dug Infinite had to wait almost 15 years to actually become in demand, and that was only after Kanye stole their sound (another argument for another day)! Jay Dee had to squeeze himself into the scene, and those two wack ass Tribe albums he had hands on was just more Q-tip’s and Phife’s fault with those weak rhymes than it was his.
Now I digress – I agreed with most of the rest of the post, but don’t let the bias cloud the picture. A classic is in the eye of the beholder, and anybody who’s followed hip-hop for longer than 20 years knows that “artist push” has just as much to do with hype as it does talent. Just ask Saigon, Guilty Simpson, or Crooked I – three GREAT examples of artist who have the skills, but no $$$$ or radio hype pushing the product.
Comment by The_Soulution 03.26.10 @
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point taken, but what was the classic jay lp again?
@ Gin Digwhore re
“What other producer can make great tracks with either samples or synths?”
“Dre? Quik? Any other west coast cat?”
I didn’t state it clearly but that was what I was driving at. Dilla is up there with Dre, Quik etc.
As far as “Any other West Coast cat” yeah I don’t think so.
“Time has revealed that Marley jacked more production credits than he actually produced songs”
Regardless of who did what, it’s worth noting that Biz and Kane were never able to make an album as good without Marley.
And to the people saying Dilla was wack on the mic..he was FAR from being good, that is true. Personally I think Madlib is one of the worst producers to “grace” the mic [next up is Alchemist…FUCKING horrible, it’s like Deebo raping your ears], dude is fucking awfull on the mic.
a wannabee hardcore white boy wrote this shit
stay irrelevant
Nobody gives a damn about your opinion Phi-lips.
Stick to tumblr
@ johnny hardcore…i think you misunderstood me…i enjoy all those people you named, too. you were saying they don’t get the props they deserve and i was trying to give possible reasons for why that is. do i personally care about their relevance? no. but perception is important in terms of exposing their music to as many people as possible. maybe you care about that, maybe not.
@ dj davito…i didn’t ‘diss’ immotech. i actually gave him a bunch of props and said he has a weak flow for someone from ny. all i did was point out the obvious; he has issues with rapping to the beat. i don’t dislike immotech, i enjoy his shit. but when you’re from a city like ny with a lyrical tradition that runs deep, it becomes pretty obvious if you’re not living up to it. revolutionary vol.1, flow-wise, is damn near unlistenable. i will say, though, that he’s gotten a lot better. as for the ‘2010’ guys you named, a) i was talking flow from an ny standpoint, which i think i explained already and b) of all the people on that list, i am only familiar with lloyd banks, and he raps a lot better than immotech. were you talking flow or content? because personally content doesn’t matter that much to me; either i like the music or i don’t.
Finally someone who aint scared to tell the truth about people in the game. I coulds have swore you were going to mention 9th Blunder I mean cough 9th wonder and his music. What happened. He must be in part 2 of this article.
Opinions are opinions and all that good stuff… but how could anybody possibly compare Lloyd Banks and Technique? I get that lyrics aren’t your thing, but a)you’re basically saying US Weekly is better than James Joyce because there aren’t any pictures in Joyce’s work, and b)then don’t compare the two.
This goes back to my early point on criticism. You may like or enjoy Lloyd Banks’s music more than Tech’s, but there is absolutely no way he could be considered a superior artist based on standards intended to be as objective as possible.
One of the biggest problems with the internet age is that everybody gets to become a critic. But, being a critic is way more than having an opinion. Actual critics are trained in journalism, and specifically trained to not do what 90% of these posts do.
@Johnny Hardcore
It was a joke. Do you know what COINTELPRO was? If you do, I think the humor would be obvious.
And, sure, everybody is allowed to have an opinion, but that doesn’t mean each one is as legitimate as the next. People have to defend their opinions with evidence and argumentation, and the skills one has to present their opinion are highly important as well.
I actually like 4 of the 6 acts on your originally posted underrated list, very much so actually. But if you don’t supplement a post like that with some actual context, then it’s totally meaningless.
@daboroboy I get you. Your saying they don’t get props because of lack of exposure for various reasons. I agree with this. I just miss like 91 when all you needed was a dope album and video and you were dope and Gold.(i.e In God We Trust and Death Certificate)
@digglahhh I do know what COINTELPRO was but I didn’t realize you were joking, either way I was heated over it. I thought you were worthy of response because you didn’t just call me a fag or make death threats…haha. I could go on and on about why I think the artists I picked where dope but I don’t think anyone on here has the attention span…Do you think they do? haha
^wasn’t
For the record, Freddie Gibbs can rap. Really well. If you disagree with that fact, then keep sleeping. Everything ain’t for everyone.
Proof that R.A is the fucking Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r0KpWMNxnM
log off nigga
WOW! I was getting upset and delighted simultaneously as I read this article. It’s on point. I am a big UGK fan and none of Pimp or Bun’s solo joints have matched the mark made as a group. Dilla, in my opinion. no one has EVER been able to chop up a sample as creatively as he has. However, a lot of his joints aren’t great for listening pleasure purposes and he’s not the world’s best MC either. Feel me? GOD BLESS his life and he has influenced tons of producers though. Dudes need to chill out on saying that one region of the country/world doesn’t produce good music. I mean, the South has still put forth Scarface, Little Brother, Outkast, Goodie Mob, Ludacris, T.I., UGK, etc. Keep in mind: Andre 3000 would probably dismantle your favorite rapper, too, without having an album out. Just saying…
Dilla was great….not over rated. His music was cool and his lyrics were cool….was q-tip any better on the mic? His beats were cool too. he produced the early tribe beats….think about it.
Oh, and Freddie Gibbs is from Gary, IN and is rapping about some real street ish. Most of the cats on this blog have only read about or listened to songs about neighborhoods like Gary. I worked there, it’s no joke. He’s not some suburban cat or hipster trying to be down and ear some stripes with some fake street cred. Gary, IN is not just home to the Jacksons, folks!!
30 producers of the top of the head better than J-Dilla (in no order)
1)PREMIER
2)DOMINGO
3)RZA
4)MARLY MARL
5)SAM SEVER
6)LA POSSE
7)LARGE PRO
8)STOUPE from JEDI MIND TRICKS
9) DJ JS-1
10)PETE ROCK
11)prince paul
12)hi tek
13)4th disciple
14)marco polo
15)snow goons
16)Daneja
17)ski
18)Jazo
19)rick rubin
20)paris
21)erick sermon
22)pmd
23)just blaze(who i’m not even a fan of)
24)Tony Touch
25)sd50s
26)jazzy jeff
27)Frankie Cutless
28)Kenny Dope
29)k-def
30)THORO TRACKS
and I could keep going.These producers got classics!!!!!
Oh and whoever dissed KILLA SHA because your shook ass is scared to leave your name.FUCK YOU! Anybody who says “dweebs” or “lames” is a cornball!
People don’t care about him except Robbie and “lames”,EVERYBODY IN QB loved sha and all the other boros and over seas.
Next time leave your name,ass clown!!!!
NUFF RESPECT ROBBIE!!!
“Dilla was great….not over rated. His music was cool and his lyrics were cool….was q-tip any better on the mic?”
Er, yes. Quite obviously.
WOW, how is this a “shock post”??? It’s just his opinion. People going crazy just cuz he has a different view than you?? Get the fuck outta here. IN MY OPINION, all that shit he said was true. I love Madlib. But damn, some shit he releases is crap. Like “new quintent” the stevie wonder shit cmon, give me a break. That stoney jackson shit was weak too.For every good record Madlib releases, he puts out 4 pieces of shit. Stones Throw keeps pumpin his shit out because fanboys buy it up and keep the label running. And dilla…I hate to say it, but just cuz he died, hella dudes jumped on his jock and all of a sudden he “saved their life”. No disrespect. The Tribe stuff he did was horrible. That shit made me stop looking for tribe. People thought that Common record was wack before they even knew dilla did it. Then they find out it was dilla, then they were like, yeah that shit is dope. GTFOH. Why is Paul C always mysteriously absent from top producer credits???? He was way more relevant than Dilla. I would put 45king way before Dilla. Dilla was good, but not one of the greatest. Sorry, just my opinion. Tupac…do I even need to mention this piece of shit?? Dude was way overrated. He sold an image to a weak minded public. And they bought it. period. And Jay Electronica…Man, when I heard everyone talkin bout him, I was excited to hear it. WHen I heard it , I was like, “what the fuck??!!”. HOw the hell is he the future??? THat shit is average at best. Exhibit C was not the least bit exciting. NOthing new there. I have to agree, what has he done besides bone Erykah Badu???
I dont believe 2pac was the greatest rapper ever,but believe he had a lot of knowledge to give and think he tried to give it through his music,his flow wasnt great,but believe he wasnt just in the game for the money where as i think biggie was.i hate mc’s that rap with no heart or soul,pac rapped with his heart and soul and for that reason thats why hes got a loyal and defensive fan base,just like Dilla. (added by Mobile using Mippin)
Someone was telling me a story they saw a dude with the “Dilla changed my life shirt” and walked up to him and to ask “how”?
LMAO !!!!
“Someone was telling me a story they saw a dude with the “Dilla changed my life shirt” and walked up to him and to ask “how”?
LMAO !!!!”
I agree that Madlib is hit and miss, especially YNQ material, but there’s not many in the game production-wise that’s doing much that’s fresh at the moment. At least the Dilla/Madlib production is ‘challenging’, using source samples from further afield. Don’t get me confused here, my all-time favs include Pete Rock, Large Pro, Marley and 45, but the majority of the stuff I hear these days is just wack, even from the greats. Everything sounds dated or just plain lazy. The problem with most MCs is they will rap over any old shit! Madlib is a wack lyrically, but isn’t that pretty much the point of his rhymes – a cliched ridden MC?! Dilla is the same. I’d rather listen to them both rap badly in a smoked-out drawl over a decent beat, than a forgetful thugged-out rhyme over some weak keyboard tinny beat or to the same old speeded up soul sample.
Alchemist. Now there’s someone hugely over-rated. 9th Wonder? Poor mans Pete Rock, although I dig some of his beats.
so basically phillip mlynar is a huge faggot…word, thanks for clarifying unkut.com
Gin Digwhore please name me one lyrical q-tip verse on any song ever that made u rewind…..matter of fact anybody on here please do that 4 ur boy and help him out.
lol @ my comment getting deleted…
hard as you white boys try, you’ll never be who you wish you were or where you wish you were from…faggots….
oh nevermind, my bad then…
@diglahhh…so from my previous comments you are somehow under the impression that a)lyrics ‘aren’t my thing’, b) i enjoy or prefer lloyd banks to immotech, and c) i consider banks a superior artist to immotech? if so, comprehension FAIL. go back and read again. my point was this, plain and simple: in terms of pure rapping, as in ‘putting words together in the most skillful, polished manner possible in time to the beat’, lloyd banks raps circles around immotech. IMO, this is not even a debate. immotech has always had problems in that area, although he is much better than he used to be. if you’re talking content, or just about every other category, for my money, its immotech all day. as far the existence of ‘objective’ standards -as opposed to personal tastes- for judging art, good luck with that argument. i understand your point about critics, but saying they are trained in journalism doesn’t hold a lot of weight when what passes for journalism these days is a joke. It’s hard to extol the merits of something that virtually nobody does anymore.
@ daboroboy,
And that’s exactly my point… most of the criticism you hear nowadays isn’t really criticism. It’s just somebody with an opinion. Criticism is a lot more than that.
And, in fact, I am going to disagree about Tech and Banks. Volume I was clearly lacking in the flow department. Volume II ranged largely from competent to good (but the lyrics and content were so good it hardly mattered). On The Third World he was pretty damn good. But, it’s still apples to oranges, or more like the minors and the majors. Banks can slap any words together about anything, he has full freedom to put those words together in timing over a beat. He doesn’t have to be coherent, stay on topic, etc. In other words there are no boundaries ever on a rapper like Banks because the bar he sets thematically and content-wise is non-existent. Stipulate that he must create an album that has coherent themes, internal consistency in the values espoused, etc. and let’s see if he’s still able to do what he does.
Think about the greater context of the evolution of the music industry. Nowadays all those skills Tech has that translate really well into making an album aren’t nearly as relevant. You can skip everything you don’t like, you can just download a single song off of Itunes. An album is just a collection of songs. Artists like Banks didn’t survive before this model of disposable culture and a la carte consumption. Technique would have prospered in the Golden Age, Banks wouldn’t have even been signed. That’s important.
And, finally, many other well-respected artists have the same shortcomings as Technique – does that make Lloyd Banks a better rapper than them too? Ras Kass, O.C., Talib Kweli, and many others. I mean, what has Lloyd Banks ever even done – he dropped two real ill freestyles back in the day, the one over the “Victory” beat and one other that I can’t even remember, but I recall there being two. Fabolous did that about seven thousand times (shit, Grafh bodied a half dozen mixtape freestyle joints worse than Banks ever did).
…Now, if you wanted to advance the same argument with somebody like Fab, I’d at least be forced to confront the point. Fab does what you say Banks does, except he does it 50 times better, 100 times more successfully, and became one of the biggest rappers in the game without riding the coattails of a mentor who happened to be the most popular musical act in the entire world at the time of his debut.
Sorry for the essay length post.
Phil….been a looooong time but I agree with you except for Jay Electronica…should’ve kept Pac on the list…in fact he’s number 1 then Dilla.
Back in the days we couldn’t sell Dilla records we had to discount…I remember trying to put peoples onto to ‘Dedication To Suckers’ one of his exceptional moments but nobody would listen…anyways you said what some people are afraid to hear…got to give you props…I’m not down for a rewriting of History!
BTW I met and hung out with Jay Dee as I knew him and he was one one of the most gracious people in this industry that I ever met… a true testament to how a person should conduct themselves…a gentleman with humility!
Also producers including some of DJ Davito’ list I’d put above Jay Dee include: Beatnuts, Showbiz, Diamond D, Arthur Baker, Mantronix, Peter Brown, Neptunes, Timbaland, Dr Dre, Alchemist, Paul C etc. but for me it’s a tie between Marley and Premo as to the GOAT…
@ Kiah. Yeah, ‘Dedication…’ is ill – one of the few Dilla records I’ve kept (those Tribe ‘Jam’ EPs went for good eBay money on the basis of bootleg Dilla productions!).
Full revelation: I met up with Dilla on his first press trip to London at that hotel on Tottenham Court Road (forget the name). When I turned up the publicist’s intern intimated that he was the big black guy sitting on the couch in the lobby. I spoke to him for five minutes as if he was Dilla – turns out it was Felix The Housecat…
When SV eventually turned up for interview I was told by the publicist not to talk about Jay Dee and that he prolly wouldn’t be available for interview. He wasn’t. And this was pre-the official release of ‘Fantastic Vol 2’. Even then I got the impression that he thought he was bigger than SV (sorry stans). This was after Gilles Peterson had rinsed SV songs long before any hip-hop deejays were on the Dilla bandwagon.
Left a little bit of a sour taste. But them’s the breaks – as much as people want to canonize him as a legend, he seemed very much about his biz and what he could do solo financially than anything to do with the hip-hop scene at the time.
BTW – Left ‘Pac off the list as it’s so obvious. Think there’s bigger issues with the newer additions…
To be honest, Eric Cantona changed my life more than Dilla. When the seagulls followed the trawler, it wasn’t for a bloody J Dilla beat.
Donuts is the best produced record of the decade(IMHO),its flawless. But i find a lot of his pre-champion sound records pretty boring. You have to understand, that a lot of people didn’t even know about Donuts when he died. Then Stones throw dropped the shining, re-released Ruff Draft, nature sounds released JSP, and everybody lost they mind)
i understand how fans can put you off an artist.there’s a lot of rap i could listen to but when i see and hear the lames that are into it, it turns me away.
it’s like how people used to say “i’m not into rap but i like rawkus” and pronounce Mos Def with a ‘Moss’.
madlib gets caught in this and i think people just generally gush over anything Stones Throw release without having more rap/music knowledge to contextualise and critique it.
LOL…this faggot mad cause jay dee wouldn’t talk to him!!! LOLOLOL
as if a man can’t be about his business and still create music that defines his era…you just mad cause YOU don’t get it, and you don’t have enough SOUL to move beyond your pitiful misconceptions…
As a loyal HHC reader for close to ten years now I’m disappointed in your picks Phil…Gibbs can SERIOUSLY spit, straight gutter shit, as can JayElec(although not nearly often enough IMHO).
This article was a waste of space….
Nuff comments on this one. It’s really hit a nerve. I agree with list for the most part, but seriously, to the people getting out of their tree complaining about it, you’ve got to remember this is just one guy’s opinion. If you like the artists included in the list then some guy, who you’ve never met, saying they’re overrated shouldn’t lessen your enjoyment of them at all. Everyone should remember sometimes that this is music and if everyone liked the same shit the world would be a boring place, no?
Having said that it’s good to see everyone’s opinions, I just wish you all wouldn’t take it so personally, it’s not life or death after all.
Perspective, people, perspective!
first of all every one is entitled to there opion.
I’m from detroit,and I totally agree with the list. first thing j dilla or jay dee was never ever a hellua emcee FACT. next his early work with Pharcyde & DeLa was classic but the work with tribe Beats Rhymes & Life,&Love movement was so so. Tribe were doing fine without him. Now I’m not dissing him he get’s his props but when he passed away here come all these people talking about how he was this and that and he was the best ever but ask these same people to name some of his work that he did in the mid nineties they start stutering and looking like your’re an alien or something.But like I said respect do, the work with janet,busta, mad skills, chino xl, Das efx common sense,the list goes on&on but to me once he died he just was the best thing in the world and I just don’t agree. Same goes for madlib nobody was really talking abount him until that jaylib album came out. Hell most did’nt know the group he was apart of the lootpack and the crew they were apart of the Likwit Crew.So I agree with the list and here is some more to ad to the debate 1.lil wayne
2.jay z
3.nas
4.dr. dre
5.ll cool j
6.50 cent & his affilates
7.half of the southern rappers out now
8.9th wonder
9.method man
10.Redman now
I,m not saying these people are wack,just in my opion they are overated.tune in next time for my list of underated artist.
redman is better than ur fav rappers rapper now…please
great post, agree on dilla being quite boring in his later years, and agree on him being underrated in his early years. that is the dilemma.
i still think Krush slayed everyone on the beat tip, including Primo, since 93.
why would I listen to jay electronica when I can listem to Killa Priest’s first album. dude sounds like a KP clone…sorry to say it but……
…because Heavy Mental is an absolutely superb album that Priest’s subsequent work never so much as approached, so if you want to hear more music like that (and why wouldn’t you?), you’re going to have to get it from someplace other than KP. I mean, “dude is making Heavy Mental-eque music” is hardly a reason NOT to check for somebody, in my book.
Wow. Freedom of speech should be taken away from some people, you are one. You are speaking on a subject you are obviously think you know a lot about, but you sound like a complete idiot. There are so many things I disagree with in this article it is not even worth going into but WOW this is some ignorant stuff.
whatever people…this type of thing is a subjective waste of time. go out and make music, or go see music, or go do something. motherfuckers need to drop the axe they’re grindin, get out FROM BEHIND THE FUCKING COMPUTER and build something instead of tearing everything down. Bitches.
J DILLA
MADLIB
BUN B N PIMP
JAY ELEC
all talented people who wouldn’t give a motherfruck what a hater gotta say
PEACE
http://kevinnottingham.com/2010/04/01/a-rebuttal-to-unkut-coms-five-zealously-overrated-hip-hop-artists/
WHY THE FUCK YOU LABEL SOMEBODY A “HATER” IF SOMEBODY THINKS THEYRE OVER RATED? THATS THE MOST IGNORANT SHIT EVER.I’M A MUTHAFUCKIN HATER!!!
I HATED SHIT SINCE HAMMER,VANILLA ICE,YOUNG MC,DJ QUIK,FATHER MC,SNOOP DOG, TO PUFFY TO DEATH ROW TO LIL BOW WOW TO 50 CENT TO 90% OF THE OTHER ARTISTS OUT THERE.
IT’S HATING IF YOU THINK SOMEBODY IS WACK OR A SELL OUT? OR USES Hip-Hop as a hustle??????
People who ruin this once beautiful music I will continue to hate and blame,for ruining the once most beautiul,innovative,creative type of music.
NOT HATING IS WHY HIP-HOP IS GARBAGE NOW.
SO NOT ONLY AM I HATER,I’M THE MOTHERFUCKIN’ PRESIDENT.I COME FROM AN ERA OR PLACE WHEN IF SOMEBODY WAS A “SELL OUT” OR COULDNT RAP THEY GOT THEIR MUTHAFUCKING CARD PULLED.
LOOK AT ALL THE IGNORANT COONING UNCLE TOM BACKWARD ASS SHIT IN THE SOUTH AND ALL OVER.
CHUCK D,PRT,KRS,PARIS,TIM DOG,GANGSTARR,TRIBE,DE LA SOUL AND SO MANY OTHERS MADE QUALITY INTELLIGENT MUSIC SO HIP-HOP WOULD BE CONSIDERED INNOVATIVE AND ALL THE OTHER FORMS OF MUSIC THAT WOULDNT EVEN CONSIDER HIP-HOP AS MUSIC.
WELL THOSE BROTHER ACCOMPLISHED THAT BUT NOW THESE CRACK BABY RAPPERS HAVE RUINED EVERYTHING.
I DONT KNOW IF I BLAME THE LIL WAYNES MORE OR THE COCK SUCKERS THAT BUY HIS MUSIC.
NOT HATING IS WHAT KILLED HIP-HOP’S PURITY!!!!
Lay of caps lock, son. There are tons of good hip-hop now. It just dont sell as good as 10 years ago. I’m sure you know that. And the whole article is pure garbage anyway
Dilla on the mic wasn’t great, and most of the people who used his beats weren’t great, but as far as production, a lot of people ^here^ aren’t giving him the credit he deserves. He took production to the next level, completely elevated the game, anyone who doesn’t produce probably wouldn’t get it.
Pimp C has never had a true solo album. The Sweet James Jones stories was an album made up of Pimp C freestyles of song ideas he had with tacked on production. He had no input or control over it because he was in jail and he didn’t even want it to come out. With that said it had some powerful cuts. The Pimpalation is just that a compliation where he intentionally worked outside his box with other producers and rappers. So Pimp cannot be judged fairly as a solo artist. Bun B, however can. Sadly, he made his solos after the height of his rap prowess which was from Riding Dirty til Trill.
Dilla has two great albums in which he’s the central force behind Donuts and Like Water for Chocolate. I also consider Electric Circus great but that’s not general critical consensus.
Dillas rapping is not great at all. It is catchy though.
Dilla never got the vibe right with Tribe. Their work without him is much better than with him.
Dillas greatness comes from his total mastery of the production. His cult started comes from other musicians who are in awe of his abilities. For example on Donuts he’s playing around with samples making dozens of great original ideas out of material where most producers would have had struggled to have one or two. He was able to deliver a fully conceived vision of totally different sounds. Compare Amplified to Like Water for Chocolate to Champion Sound to Donuts. He could produce equally well with or without samples. He could rework worn samples into something fresh. He two tracked his productions and they were perfectly mixed. He invented the neo-soul sound and was the driving force of the Soulquarian movement. The man needs some credit.
I’m not even a big fan of his meaning I don’t find myself listening to his music often but I can’t deny his production mastery and immense contribution to music.
Thanks for taking on these sacred cows Phillip.
Jay Electronica is….unproven. The Nas comparisons are unworthy because Nas changed how people rap. ped after him. I don’t see anybody Jay influencing anybody’s style so he won’t have Nas’ effect on rapping. Let’s see if he can make a good and interesting album.
THIS IS FOR DJ DAVITO I AGREE WITH YOU MAN YOU CAN’T SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT SOMETHING OR SOMEBODY WITHOUT IT BEING CALLED HATING AND THAT IS BULL SHIT WHEN TIM DOG MADE FUCK COMPTON THIS WAS A PRUE EXAMPLE OF AN ARTIST EXPRESSING HIS OPINON DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT NOW EX.(FUCK ALANTA)
PEOPLE BE READY TO KILL YOU.
Big Up The true hip/hop heads./…
check me out..because you’ll be love’n me soon if not now…\
RAS A’SIA
J Dilla:
Dilla was putting in work for years and never got the shine so him getting his due posthumously is poetic justice.
His bars? Go to the Jaylib joint and listen to his bars on there. Dude may not have been Nas on the mic but the way he rode beats (especially his own) was dope.
Those last 2 tribe albums? People seem to blame Dilla but those joints were produced by THE UMMAH: Dilla, Tip and Ali Shaheed Muhammad. I don’t hear anyone gettin’ at Tip about those joints. And Beats, Rhymes and Life was a dope album. The reception that album got was due to 2 things: One, in ’96, the game was changing. Puffy was on that shiny suit, familiar sample jackin, mainstream shit and most cats were following suit. So that lane that Tribe was in with Midnight Marauders wasn’t there when they came back. Two, whether or not Dilla was involved, people probably would have fronted because Tribe made the mistake of setting the bar so damn high with those first 3 albums that the fans expected nothing less than an immediate classic. As far as The (ain’t no) Love Movement, when you got a group that’s pissed at their label and pissed with each other, how the fuck you THINK the album’s gonna come out?!!! And even on that joint, there was a couple of bright spots (Steppin’ It Up, Find My Way, Start It Up).
Finally, is J Dilla any more overrated than Pac or even Lil’ Wayne at this point. At least you can have a civilized convo with a Dilla fan. Pac fans will call you a fag and your dead mother a stinkin’ bitch if they think you’re hatin’ on their boy.
Okay this is the thing with J Dilla . First and foremost , dude was futuristic with his shit . just LISTEN to his work . The next thing is , you pretty much have to be a musician of some type to really understand and get what he was doing . Before Dilla almost everybody was scared to turn of the quantize function on their MPC / SP1200/ ASR etc . Everybody from D.I.T.C. to the Beatminerz , they made solid beats and had A-1 sample game , but they didn’t have that “freeness” about their music . There were all types of great jazz musicians , but no one quite like John Coletrane.
“whoever said shock posts or whatever was right. if i want this type of bullshit i will read bol-byron crawford over at xxl (which i won’t). seriously, this is the best hip-hop website going because it takes the art form seriously, is ridiculously knowledgable, and also has fun and humor. but this? what’s next? illseed’s UNKUT rumors? please don’t fuck up what you’ve built with glib ass posts. that’s a compliment.”
Comment by MDI 03.25.10 @
Real talk. Had to repost this shit.
WHEN YOU DONT LIKE IT, JUST DONT BUY! SO EASY..FIRST I LIKE THE MADLIB STUFF NOW I FEEL LIKE ITS BULLSHIT..I NEVER LISTENED TO JDILLA, THE COMPANIES, THEY ARE HYPING THEIR OWN STUFF, SELLOUT!, LIKE STONES THROW RECORDS..WHATS THEIR AIM? MAKING DOLLARS…
DONT LISTEN TO FAST FOOD TYPE MUSIC, THATS THE AMERICAN WAY OF LIFE CULTURE, FAST FOOD TYPE FAST MUSIC ART..FUKK THAT! I’ M FED UP!
http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/interviews/id.1545/title.phife-dawg-his-name-is-mutty-ranks
think there’s no doubt Dilla caused Tribe to break up/get rubbish, at least according to Phife…
I was gonna come on here and rant and rave about the list and how Jay-Z, Eminem and Nas (because if you’re gonna put Bun B & Pimp C why not these guys) but I think you got a decent list.
I keep hearing about Gibbs as some sort of gangsta rap savior but nothing is really distinctive about him. You hit the nail on the head with that one.
J. DIlla is painful to acknowledge but you’re right. He’s a very good producer who’s somehow morphed into one of the best ever after he passed away.
I blame the indie tourists that got into hip hop and started hyping Clipse and Gibbs and the like.
Yall Niggas dont know shit about hip hop. All yall fuckin bloggers overated. oh well. Even a dead nigga like dilla needs haters too. and My nigga gibbs from gary. REP DAT SHIT
^Word, Gary IN aka Home of that real hip hop.
Niglet please.
I didn’t catch this when it first dropped. Great writing. I could give or take the opinions but dude made my month with some shit like, “There was a time when you’d pick up a copy of The Source and read how one of the emcees in Da Lench Mob had gone to jail for mass genocide and was to be replaced by another mid-level Los Angeles rapper.”
Oh, man. That’s gettin’ in.
QUESTION IS WHO ISNT WACK THESEDAYS? BITCH NAS ONLY BLESSED HIP HOP ONE DECENT JOINT ON HIS LAST ALBUM.
NO DISREPECT TO THE DEAD, IM NOT SAYING ANYTHING BUT MY BLESSINGS TO DILLA AND ANY OTHER ARTISTS THAT UNFORTUNANTLY PASSED.
BUT AS FOR THE LIVING, THEY ALL DEAD IN MY BOOK. HIP HOP IS A QUADRALPLEGIC HOOKED UP TO MACHINES.
Dilla is a producer’s producer, if anything he’s underrated because most people who support him don’t even understand why he’s great, you’re just showing love to someone who died following the next guy like back in the Myspace days, everybody had him as a friend. You simply judge his work by sound alone missing the genius behind it, style. You’re out of your depth. He is very outside the box when it comes to MPC sampling techniques, very efficient. You can learn more from dissecting his work than any other producer when it comes to sampling. With that said Madlib’s stuff is… Idk, some of it is good and a lot of it is just lazy loops, he gets a lot of steam from the fact his name is tied to Dilla, StonesThrow. He doesn’t come to close to Dilla in terms of all-out creativity and total insanity, he just cranks them out going for quantity over quality. The main thing he has working for him is the samples he uses, he has great taste in samples but beyond that I’m always shocked to see whenever I reverse engineer his work its almost always just loops and everything I thought *HE* added was already there. Its not that hard to come up with rare samples if you have the money and access to buy the vinyl, with that said half the samples don’t even sound like vinyl, its sounds like he recorded it right off of a TV with a crappy mic. If you actually stop to think about what overrated actually means then yea, I think Madlib is highly overrated, that’s not to say he’s still better than most. When you hear a Madlib beat you know its Madlib, I always can. Dilla even more so. They have a ear for it. Unlike these posers today who all sound exactly alike because they all rely on the same exact keyboard formula and VST’s, same exact snare roll every single song, rapid hi-hats and f*cking church organs, I cannot tell one apart from the next and they’re all their own #1 fans. Jay Electronica and the rest of them shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same sentence as Dilla or Madlib.