Time and time again I read claims that the reason why the producers who cut their teeth in the 12-bit sampling era aren’t bringing the same level of beat-making wizardry to the table is because they’ve moved on from their dusty old SP-1200’s, MPC 60’s and EPS’. I’m claiming bullshit. Sure, there’s no denying that a certain range of drum machines and samplers have a distinct sound and character, but at the end of the day they’re still a means to an end. All the Fender Rhodes, S-950’s and SSL 4000 desks in the world aren’t going to magically bring your favorites back to their prime.
Here’s a quick cross-section of quotes regarding equipment:
Lord Finesse: I was in a session in California with Mel Man and Dre. Mel Man was loading 5 to 6 beats at time in the MPC 3000. I was only able to load one program at a time with the SP1200. I felt like I was in the Flintstone era and they were the Jetsons.
Diamond D: ‘I use a lot more live instrumentation now. I still chop and manipulate samples, but my sound just sounds bigger now. Just using better equipment so the sample frequencies are better.’
Showbiz: You ain’t got to worry about lugging those big floppy discs around…embarrassing.
Large Professor: The LP was so muddy and dirty. It was like, ‘Yo, I gotta go back to the drawing board and get something fresh and new to work with, so I’m not just sittin’ here with the 12-bit sampler – about to go to the grave with a SP-1200 and some floppy discs!’ So I really tried to step it up and not be stagnated by one particular sound. Try to keep it moving a little bit.
Madlib: I did most of the Madvillain album in Brazil. Cuts like “Raid” I did in my hotel room in Brazil on a portable turntable, my (Boss SP) 303, and a little tape deck. I recorded it on tape, came back here, put it on CD, and DOOM made a song out of it. Niggas be sleeping, thinking they need all this gear.
When quizzed about ‘Sally Got A One Track Mind,’ (one of my favorite beats of all-time), Diamond D told me that ‘I made that beat using the Alesis HR-16 and the Akai S-950 in about twenty minutes.’ The thing to remember is that it wasn’t the HR-16 drum machine sequencer, nor the Akai sampler that made that track so great. It was the way that he combined ‘Sparkling In The Sand’ and ‘Skull Snaps’ in a way that no one else could have possibly imagined. Plus I still haven’t figured out where he got those strings from….
The point being, who the fuck wants to mess with 5 1/4 floppy discs in the age of memory cards? Those old machines are a pain in the ass, with their tiny screens, expensive spare parts and love of ancient SCSI connectors. I don’t want to be part of any world where Zip Discs are considered a valuable currency. Should we all stick to sending documents via fax instead of scanning and emailing PDF’s in an attempt to preserve that analog feel?
Producers generally want to move onto a richer, bigger sound in their music – whether we like it or not. Even if the D.I.T.C crew and their peers had refused to embrace new technology, they wouldn’t be making the same music they were creating in 1993. Surely you didn’t expect Show to flip Jack Bruce for twenty years? Or for Pete Rock to keep using ‘Just Rhymin’ With Biz’ scratches on every hook (his current count is five songs). As much as I preach the cause of non-progressive rap, that doesn’t mean I expect everyone to ride around in 1987 Suzuki Samurais!
All the amateur producers currently fetishizing certain samplers with the belief that it will make your drums sound like ‘The Bridge’ are welcome to keep chasing that pipe dream of the ultimate Roger Linn ‘swing,’ but lets stop blaming clean sounding hip-hop beats on the ‘evils’ of modern equipment. It’s almost as tiring as the argument about how anything not sampled from original vinyl is illegitimate. If these Defenders of Tha Tru Skool are to be believed, then this Afrika Bambaataa set, as reported by Steven Hager in his report for The Village Voice on September 23, 1982, makes him the original rap Judas:
“Bambaataa opened his show with the theme song from The Andy Griffith Show, taped off his television set. He mixed the ditty with a rocking drum beat, followed it with The Munster’s theme song and quickly changed gears with ‘I Got the Feeling,’ by James Brown.”
Eff your bespoke valve amplifier.
its what you do with what you have…not the machine itself…. THE MIND does the work
Damn, Robbie, did I inspire this post? lmao…
@oska: Not aimed at you but your original comment did spark off the topic.
See Night Shift and One Man Band by K-Def as well.
I think its a combination of both the producers themeselves and the equipment used cause There’s no denying that the nineties sound had a lot to do with the equipment used but at the same time there was plenty of wack bland production back then to. I don’t know what drum machines Dj Skizz or Alchemist use but there perfect examples of newer producers who don’t make repetitive soft ass beats.
AMEN on this post. I had both an SP-1200, and a MPC 3000. When it was time to decide which one to let go of, it was a no-brainer (just wished I woulda held onto it longer because prices skyrocketed).
@Ben
I remember years ago when Alchemist had his website up & running, he’d post clips & he was using an ASR-10. His sound has been consistent with that.
WELL I’M TIRED OF EVERYBODY SAYING EMBRACE THIS TECHNOLOGY. ROBBIE MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT JUST USING THE OLD MACHINES WON’T MAKE THESE PRODUCERS FROM THE NINETIES RECLAIM THEIR FOMER GREATNESS BUT DAMMIT THE STUFF THEIR USING NOW ISN’T HELPING ETHIER. THAT ALBUM PETE ROCK DID WITH SMIFF & WESSION IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF THIS. THAT SHIT WAS WEAK AS HELL COMPARED TO HIS MUSIC HE MADE BACK IN THE DAY. NOW THERE HAVE BEEN SOME EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE THAT UN OR U OUT ALBUM BACK IN 04, THEN RERELEASED A YEAR AGO OR SO WAS DOPE SO WAS DOUBLE BARRLEL BY MARCO POLO AND TORAE WAS ALSO A BANGER BUT MOST OF THESE NEW ALBUMS FROM PRODUCERS FROM THE NINETIES ARE TRASH. BUT THATS MY OPINON. DIME PIECE FROM DIAMOND D WAS WACK TO ME THE ALBUM SHOWBIZ DID WITH KRSONE STRAIGHT GARBAGE. I KNOW WHERE YOU COMING FROM . A CAT WILL SAY NEW ALBUM BY SUCH AND SUCH PRODUCE ENTIRELY WITH A SP & S950 AND THINK IT’S GONNA BE GREAT AND IT ENDS UP SOUNDING MEDIOCRE AT BEST,HOWEVER ALL THIS MOVE FORWARD WITH NEW TECHNOLOGY CRAP GETS ON MY NERVES. PRODUCERS BACK THEN HAD LESS AND DID MORE,NOW THEY HAVE MORE AND DO LESS. A GREAT EXAMPLE OF HOW THE 90’S HEADS WONT’LET THAT SOUND DIE WAS 2011 BUCKWILD & CELPH TITLED’S NINETEEN NINTY NOW ALBUM DID.NUMBER 1 SELLER FOR HALF A YEAR ON UNDERGROUND HIPHOP.COM OUTTA BOSTON. SO IN CONCLUSION I STILL USE MY SP 12, & 1200, S950, MPC 60, 2000, I HAVE A 4000 BUT IT’S COLLECTING DUST SO IS MY TRITON KEYBOARD. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH FLOPPY DISK. BUT I HERE YOUR POINT BUT THE NEW SHIT AN’T WORKING FOR THESE GUYS IN MY OPINON BUT THATS ME. @
When the sp mpc crowd can get over their old gear, and embrace the DAW platform on a computer, things will get hot again.
What people dont realize those tracks were a labor of love, finding the right break and adding special effects. That hunger was deep, and time readily avaliable for the young dudes spending hours messing around with equipment, learning.
The new age producer is killing it with flstudio because of ease of use, learning curve and sounds avaliable. One can have a bundle on the cheap and install in their home pc from a dowloadable file.
the djs embraced serato and scratching on cds, there is no change in sound, but a much better mix. The old heads just gotta go with the new tech.
Maybe using a sp1200 in 2015 is impractical but I don’t think fruity loops and some downloaded sound fonts is going to bring the vibe back either.
What the people love about the 80s and the 90s is the records the producers used and the way they and the engineers mixed the sounds….that’s all it is….Anything that uses a sample now is doing the same thing as those machines did…who cares if one dude uses a floppy disk and the other uses a flash usb stick….impeach the president is still going to be impeach the president. It seems as if people are mistaking art for the blank canvas its painted on. There are no sounds on these machines….these are not drum machines in the tr808 sense…..they are blank canvases…what the artist puts into it is what comes out of it.
The sound is different partly because inspiration and the way you think and do things at 19 is going to different than when you are 45 no matter what equipment you use. It’s all about how you hear a sample. I’ve made beats that I haven’t listened to in years and when I think about how I chopped those samples I don’t even think I have the patience to reproduce that effort. My friends and I used to have this game we’d play where we’d take the same sample and see who could flip it the best. It’s all about the CREATIVITY and the ear of the producer.
The vibe is never lost, its just some new kids doing it.
Kanye is one of those guys with a good balance of the old and new, he isnt new, but doing it during the right time.
Whatever you hoped to do is even easier with flstudio. Set aside the dumb anolog vs digitial argument, an engineer can work his magic.
Theres still lots of hunger out there, and the learning curve is just making it too easy. The non need for sample clearences is making it even better, in my opinion. As you age, there is a better appreciation for original music.
Lets not take it out on the old cats, it just looks so strange for a 40+ years old rapper producer get up there wearing hood gear , trying to relive his fame. Really, drug talk from an oldtimer is boring! Let alone, flossing grey facial hair is wack!
Let the old samplers rest already, because my music program is allowing me to tweak the shhh out of sounds! To do the same with an old machine is a long process , using a small screen to figure out what is going on. Something the ageing producer can do without.
What’s worse are new producers trying to sound like old producers, i.e. Apollo Brown and the like. I recently bought the O.C. Trophies album and the beats sounded like Pete Rock throwaways that had no depth to them. Tin drums, mp3 quality beats if you ask me.
if I remember correctly I’m pretty sure Lil Fame made Preemo use a machine that wasn’t his biz to produce ‘Salute’ and that turned out to be a bangin track!
I made this on an old 2003 pc package and an ipad…together..(D Styles did the scratches)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u4lfFrB03s
I met Awol / Tony back at a show in Chicago years ago. Mad cool.
All the technology available around the golden blessed period still sounds superb, I’m a stickler for new/old beat sounds.
Remember DJ Shadow and Cut Chemist doing their thing amongst their ‘Renegades of Rhythm’ set. The retro drum machine part was really nice to see.
I digress, technology has got the better of me -but I know when the beat hits -it’s got to sound dope.
Thanks Rob.
Untill I hear some music made from all this new equipment, sound as good as the older stuff from the ninety’s, i’ll stick with the 12 bit sound and floppy disk you can keep your programs and laptops.
Kapikap are you seriously suggesting producers should stop sampling and start using pre programmed sounds from frooty loops or am I reading you wrong?
Hip hop is built on samples. If you’re unable to find the right sound for a particular track you should dig a little harder, not patch in a keyboard
Fruity Loops is just a sequencer. I use it often without the MPC because just out of convenience. That beat thats sitting on the front page of this blog I produced for my album was made entirely with FLSTUDIO, i remember the chemical brothers (yes them) once said you can have a studio full of equipment but without the right musical mindset it doesnt mean anything
don’t forget people that for a good 5 years, drum machines and keyboards dominated hip hop before sampled drums became preference
Hey, I got these new extra crispy trash bags that are on sale at shoprite and when I rub them together it sounds really really hot. It makes this whole “krshk krshk” sound, it’s awesome. I called DJ Babu and he put me on the phone with the other guy from Dialated Peoples (not evidence) and I played it for him, he was feeling it and he’s gonna email me a verse to put with it. Later on that night my homey got into an argument with one of the dopefiends that live next door to me and beat him to death with a baseball bat. We ended up having to use the trash bags to put the body in. It sucked, now I have to buy new gear.
Alchemist mostly used an ASR10 (eventually moving to an MPC 2500).
I use and will continue using my SP1200 because it is an instrument that is truly fun to use (I enjoy programming on it a lot more than working in DAW). One of the greatest things about the SP (aside from how great it sounds) is its limitations, 10 seconds sampling time, force the user to be creative with regards to chopping samples and making good use of the machine’s sampling time. Programming on the SP, IMO, is like putting puzzle together. Trying to find the right pieces/samples that’ll fit to make a dope beat. In other words, ask yourself the question what’s the dopest beat you could make only utilizing 10 seconds of sampling time? This kind of limitation is the opposite of unlimited sampling time DAW’s provide. And I personally sometimes stare at a DAW with all of its endless possibilities and dong know where to start. On the other hand, the moment I turn on the SP, I know exactly what I have to do. And when you make a fire beat on the SP in ten seconds, you’ll understand why the SP has such a cult following and why it’ll never be replaced by modern DAWs.
beatmakers these days are spoilt for choice. Infinite sequencer tracks containing infinite samples and put through infinite mixer channels with infinite plugin effects. In marked contrast, a sampler with 10 seconds sample time, drum machines with very limited variables and affordable synths all recorded onto 4 track cassettes really focuses the attention and forces artists to find innovative workarounds for those limitations. You can either have the best gear and barely scrape the surface of their capabilities or, you can beg steal and borrow the crappiest gear and try to wring every drop of musical possibilities out of it. $$It aint what you do, it’s the way that you do it. That’s what gets results.$$
I find it wild that lots of Hip-Hop producers of the 90s are so short sighted as to how much they need to credit the hardware for the creation of their sound. The grittiness was an important part of the music. Rza fell off a cliff when he tried to play instruments and shouldn’t have even tried – they over estimate their ability when it comes to music, it’s actually quite cringeworthy. Also compare producers like Trackmasters in retrospect, their beats were lacklustre then and now but they were shiny.